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Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#111

Post by olivermarks »

Symbiote wrote: post #98
spiritplumber wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... so why the heck did they not un-remove it after that

When a wealthy driver from Kensington or Chelsea sees a person on a bicycle, their face turns red, their heart rate increases, and their body starts to twitch. In extreme situations, they may imagine the letters they'd like to write to the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph complaining about the abomination -- this is most common when they're driving a vehicle designed for off-road expeditions through central London. The…

Hah - what a stereotyped world you live in! There are plenty of EV owning cyclists in Kensington & Chelsea.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#112

Post by paledot »

edgarvaldes wrote: post #101
paledot wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not parking spots. Don't park next to a gas pump if you're not putting gas in the car, even if it has an internal combustion engine.

Is this an American thing? To park in a gas pump for minutes after you used it?

Yup. Bear in mind that the gas stations in the US tend towards the mind-bogglingly huge. 12 pumps across the street from 16 pumps is a common sight. (Speaking as a Canadian who used to cross the border a lot when business travel was a thing.)

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#113

Post by ClumsyPilot »

erik_seaberg wrote: post #110
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My question is "with what money"." This is a good question, we know that total cost of ownership of the charging network for cars is massively lower than that of petroleum infrastructure. So the problem is not shortage of money, but alighning incentives and investment. I believe this needs to be done through a large-scale national program, where central govermnet provides granta for modernising cities for efficiench…

Is it actually? A gas station can serve thousands of cars every week without wiring thousands of street parking spaces.

Its not just my opinion, UK government has brough forward it's ban of fossil fuel cars to 2030 from 2040 because they've done the research and found that it would geberate savings for the overall economy.

Consider thay the gas station is just the tip of the iceberg, it comes with an underground cistern of flamable liquid, trucks for delivery, complex oil refinery, pipelines and tankers. We are talking about literally hundreds of people working to keep a gas station pumping.

You are weighing all that up against one-tine installation cost of sinple cable and sockets? They need basically no ongoing maintenance, and car batteries are perfect for dumping excess power from renewables, and long as they are connected from prolonged periods - something you won't get out of a carging station approach

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#114

Post by paledot »

maccard wrote: post #108
chrisseaton wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I was at a German train station I didn't recognise any of the accepted payment cards as a visitor from elsewhere in Europe. And I note you mention you were specifically ok using debit cards - credit cards are even more problematic than debit cards in Germany. They really don't like accepting them. And try to use an American Express for anything and you will just get a puzzled look!

> try to use an American Express for anything and you will just get a puzzled look! Anyone with an Amex knows you need a visa or mastercard to back it up even in the UK or the US

Even in Canada merchants that accept Amex are more the exception than the rule.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#115

Post by paledot »

elihu wrote: post #89
SteveGerencser wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People treat gas pumps as parking spots all the time. It's even more frustrating when you are driving a diesel and the only diesel pump at the station is blocked by a gas car and the owner has wandered off to get a coffee or use the restroom, all while multiple gas pumps sit empty.

I suppose a long-term solution is just to have more charge ports. Or to have charge stations with longer cords so they can service more parking spots. I mean, charge stations are basically just 110 or 220 volt AC electrical outlets with a fancy plug. There isn't any fundamental reason they have to be an expensive, scarce resource. The more difficult scarce resource is the underlying electrical infrastructure. But if…

Well, fast chargers not so much. There you're looking at 50+ kW with liquid-cooled cables. But yes, urban and destination charging stations don't need any fancy infrastructure.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#116

Post by theluketaylor »

PurpleFoxy wrote: post #81
hannob wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprising because car drivers are used to the fact that rules are not or rarely enforced. Just think about it: Technically it would be no big problem to enforce speed limits widely. The technology for speeding cameras isn't exceptionally complex, you could mass-produce them and deploy them basically in every street. I'm not aware of any country doing that.

An interesting method that is widely used in Australia is “average speed cameras”. They set up 2 sets of cameras on a long highway and then time how long it took you to get from one camera to the next. It’s an excellent idea because you can’t just slow down for the camera and then speed up again.

Average speed cameras seem unbelievably dangerous to me. I haven't ever driven somewhere with them, but I suspect all I'd be thinking about was the speed limit, resulting in very dangerous driving. With all my focus on making to correct average I'd fail to properly track other drivers and potential hazards.

I'm much happier with a flow of traffic enforcement. Ticket those who speed excessively beyond what traffic is generally flowing and let the posted limit be more of a guideline.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#117

Post by lazylizard »

owenmarshall wrote: post #38
bobthepanda wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t EVs take longer to charge than a gas fill-up? Presumably that would be better for a model where you want people to stick around and buy things, not worse. At least in the Netherlands, there are basically mini golf carts that are legally bikes for disabled people. https://youtu.be/B9ly7JjqEb0

> Presumably that would be better for a model where you want people to stick around and buy things, not worse. Gas stations occupy an interesting place in American life: some stations - often those in urban areas - are designed for “get in, grab a pack of peanuts, get out” transactions, but others in rural areas serve as a local gathering area. Pre-Covid (and, let’s be honest, even post-Covid) the gas stations near m…

its really weird for someone used to the faster type of gas station. why would people want want to spend any more time than absolutely necessary around petrol fumes...

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#118

Post by DevoidSimo »

theluketaylor wrote: post #116
PurpleFoxy wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting method that is widely used in Australia is “average speed cameras”. They set up 2 sets of cameras on a long highway and then time how long it took you to get from one camera to the next. It’s an excellent idea because you can’t just slow down for the camera and then speed up again.

Average speed cameras seem unbelievably dangerous to me. I haven't ever driven somewhere with them, but I suspect all I'd be thinking about was the speed limit, resulting in very dangerous driving. With all my focus on making to correct average I'd fail to properly track other drivers and potential hazards. I'm much happier with a flow of traffic enforcement. Ticket those who speed excessively beyond what traffic is…

There are no traffic lights for the ones I've seen here, so you can just set your cruise control. I would be doing this anyway on a long drive, which again is the only place I've seen these

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#119

Post by gambiting »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #113
erik_seaberg wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it actually? A gas station can serve thousands of cars every week without wiring thousands of street parking spaces.

Its not just my opinion, UK government has brough forward it's ban of fossil fuel cars to 2030 from 2040 because they've done the research and found that it would geberate savings for the overall economy. Consider thay the gas station is just the tip of the iceberg, it comes with an underground cistern of flamable liquid, trucks for delivery, complex oil refinery, pipelines and tankers. We are talking about literally…

>>They need basically no ongoing maintenance

The problem is that this is where you're wrong. Even if we get regular 3-pin 13amp sockets installed everywhere instead of the proper type-2 connectors, you can't just leave domestic sockets outside and unprotected, because in case of any damage or injury you'd be liable. At the minimum you need some circuit that can detect faults and report to HQ that it needs repairs. Then are you going to provide electricity for free? Because if not you need metering and billing infrastructure for all of these, and that absolutely does require maintenance. Even proper "hardened" type 2 chargers go out of order all the time and have to be maintained. 3-pin sockets everywhere are not the solution.

Tldr: a street with 40 sockets on it will require constant maintenance, and if the idea is to have every single Street everywhere wired with sockets, then this becomes a stupidly expensive endeavour.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#120

Post by choeger »

andor wrote: post #96
choeger wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get me wrong, you shouldn't. But how many of these deaths would have been prevented by a 20% less speed?

That's a rather distasteful argument to make and reminds me of Covid deniers blaming underlying medical conditions for deaths. Kinetic energy is m*v^2, so yes 20% makes quite a difference. Also, what's the point of a speed limit of x if 1.2x (or x+19) is tolerated. There is no good reason for a margin.

Oh, come on. First of all, speed limits are chosen conservative for various conditions. Second, cars are usually better than expected. And finally, every rule has margins (see my examples above). There is no reason to consider speed limits special.
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