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What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

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Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>>> There's no equivalent to the Dutch department store bikes that, if memory serves correctly, were cheap but simple, low-maintenance, and better outfitted for casual riding (fenders, a light, a lock). Schwinn made such bikes for decades. Folks stopped buying them.

Interesting, do you know what they were called?

My favorite Schwinns to find are the 'Suburban' models.

You can find them with fenders and a rack pretty easily. They're a simple 2x5 drivetrain.

They start out very heavy. The wheels/braking is terrible. -but-. If you swap the wheels out for something modern, perhaps do some minor drivetrain upgrades you'll wind up with a still-kinda-heavy but amazingly capable and cheap city bike. Plus, in some areas it has a bit of a 'sleeper' effect and will get lower attention from thieves.

Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#112
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australian person here. When the summer temps are routinely over 30C and winters have many rainy days, cycling in casual clothes doesn't work except for only very short distances. Most commuters in my city that ride more than 5km to work have adopted at least some lycra as part of their kit. It handles sweat better in summer and can be rinsed of sand then spun and air dried in winter, so you aren't getting into cold…

This is a joke. Australia is one of the best places for cycling, weather wise. I’ve never missed a work day. And that’s in Adelaide, Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. The only problem with Australia is the majority are addicted to cars, so much do they can’t imagine going anywhere without them.

Do _most_ people at your work cycle in? I work in a large office tower where thousands of people work. A small minority cycle to work. There are very good end of trip facilities (lockers, showers, irons, spin dryers, drying cabinets etc) available. I'd estimate there are 100 bike racks available. The bike racks get pretty full during spring and autumn when the temperatures are in the 20s (celcius) and there is no rain forecast. During the height of summer the patronage drops off (maybe 70%). During winter patronage drops markedly (often well below 40%, especially if rain is forecast).

I have been cycle commuting to school, university and various workplaces since the 80's on BMX and MTBs. I started out commuting in casual clothes (school), continued with casual clothes when I began cycling significantly further to university, but needed to carry a change of clothes due to sweat or rain. I joined the university cycle club and was introduced (admittedly with considerable skepticism) to the benefits of lycra (less chafe, faster to dry) and eventually also bought a road bike. The road bike made a big difference to my commute times/effort.

As a post grad student I had access to showers in my department. So I could ride faster/further (for fun) then shower and change before starting my day. Almost all my work places since leaving university have had shower facilities that allowed me to continue cycle commuting. Almost all the other cycle commuters at those work places that rode more than ~5km would opt to shower also. Why? because they got sweaty or wet and dirty.

If the weather is so good for cycling why do people want the end of trip shower?

By far most people I have worked with will not cycle commute at all (too far, too hard, don't want to mess up their hair with a helmet, too unsafe on the roads, take too long etc). Of those that did cycle commute, many are not all year round commuters, for the reasons I outlined above.

You may be comfortable riding in all kinds of weather. My experience is that the vast majority of Australians are not - even when end of trip facilities are available.

Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you know how to work them, and are comfortable enough riding to reach down and fiddle with them.

And the entire market of 10-speeds figured it out before the new complex shifter systems became mainstream in th 90s. Fixees for the rest, I guess.

Or automatic shifting for the untapped market of people who wouldn't figure it out but also wouldn't ride a fixie. I can see the concept getting more popular as the price of electric bicycles decreases.

Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#114
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What keeps people off bikes is the fact that most places in the US are unsafe for cycling. This may shock you, but most people don't live in the US, and different people have different motivations for either cycling or not. Although clearly you represent the everyman and can be the one-person-focus-group for the bike market!

> Although clearly you represent the everyman and can be the one-person-focus-group for the bike market! The bike market represents the bike market. As I said, these have been around for 10+ years and nobody buys them. It's not my opinion that these are undesirable, we know they are undesirable based on sales numbers. Bikes with Automatic drive trains aren't popular in the US. ... or Europe. ... or Asia. ... or anywh…

> Maybe, just maybe, your mom and your sister aren't the perfect bellwethers of the needs of skittish would-be-bike-riders in the world

Your claim is that nobody wants them. I know at least two, which is more than 0.

They aren't popular yet, but I'm willing to bet that they will be with further development. Let's not forget that the first automatic gearbox for cars, the 1904 Sturtevant "horseless carriage gearbox", wasn't exactly a market hit - it took until the late 1940's for it to take off as a polished product and longer still to overtake manual transmissions (due to similar cited concerns about maintainability and the level of control).

In fact, I actually drive a manual transmission in my car because of those factors (and manual is still more popular in the UK), but clearly the majority of the market has moved on.

Re: What caused Shimano's Coasting-program to fail? (2010)

#115

I had an internal geared hub (IGH) bike with a coaster brake and it was a blast to ride with almost zero maintenance. Even as an enthusiast that likes doing maintenance, it was nice to have that bike. I’m an advocate for IGH and drum or coaster brakes for casual commuter riders. Belt drives are nice too. These things have more drag than a derailleur and disc or caliper brakes, but this is offset by the maintenance as…

> On the other hand, what seems to sell in North America is crappy bikes with full suspension and maximum number of gears. Part of that problem is there's a certain cost floor to Derailleur based drivetrains versus Internally geared hubs, and when you're an ODM mass producing you're at a whole different level of price structure. > Actually IGH can’t shift smoothly under load Ehhhhh..... So The Nexus 8 speed will upsh…

Yeah there's probably not much use case for drum brakes anymore. Disc brakes are pretty low maintenance these days, much better performance and probably getting similar for OEM costs.
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