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The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

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Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about understanding how it works on a code level . You don't need to write the special disk out if you're patching the code, like this article does.

Yeah but you'll have to hunt for and fix the code wherever it is on every disk, which could be subtly or completely different between applications. "Recalculate track 9" is a simple program that would have worked on any Western Security DRM disk.

You're assuming it's always in track 9 in the same spot. What if it isn't? And what if different applications use slightly different obfuscation?

If we're assuming Western Security DRM is always in the same spot using the exact same method, why not compare it against some other type of copy protection that always puts the exact same checking code in the same spot? It would actually be easier to blot out the other type's code with NOPs than to recalculate obfuscated Western Security track-length tables.

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#112
post #5

Who recalls the provenance of this old legend about the fellow who challenged his pal to decode a certain floppy? It was a bog-standard DOS boot disk (IIRC) that he could put in his machine and boot normally. But his pal put it in his computer and... nothing doing, no boot. Analysis of the floppy availed not. The challenge went unmet. What did our hero do to make the floppy? .esrever ni nups evird eht os ytiralop eti…

> Analysis of the floppy availed not. It's not a very good puzzle if the only clue is "I dunno he looked at it real squinty and it didn't help." Apparently any alternate formatting would have tripped up the friend.

It's a good story and you are nitpicking.

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#113
Modern copy protection techniques are often based on this same principle. For example, the GameCube and Wii do a very similar thing. Since they use optical media, that doesn't have tracks but instead a single spiral groove, what they do is use a laser to burn little scratches into the disc (which you can see against a light). After mastering and lasering, the disc is checked to see what sectors the marks damaged. Error correction ensures the data is undamaged, but the drive can find these drop-outs. Then a table containing the sector locations is encoded and burned with the same laser into the "burst cut area", effectively a standard barcode format in the inner ring of the disc (this part is standard, many normal drives can read BCAs).

This all works because the specific angular position of any given sector is unpredictable during optical disc mastering. The groove is continuous, and never lines up in exactly the same way. So, just like the floppy trick, this is "fingerprinting" the natural variation in write speeds of different disc mastering/burning systems. This scheme is undefeatable using off the shelf burners, but one trick that Datel used to master compatible unofficial discs is to rip the encrypted BCA table off of a real game (so they didn't have to crack the encryption, though that was possible later since it's symnetric) and, instead of burning marks into the disc, just turning off the mastering laser writing the disc track at the exact same points in each track. Those discs don't have any holes, but they have a pattern of sector damage that is indistinguishable to the drive (even though the angular positions no longer match), and they work. I believe the same trick should work with a lightly modified standard burner, if you can manage to find a way to burn the BCA (and you need other firmware patches for some other data-level changes to the disc, but those are easier).

Xbox (360 and One discs at least I believe) also do this IIRC, but instead of intentional damage the drive has the ability to compute angular relationships between sectors I believe, though I'm not familiar with the details of that scheme.

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#114
I don't recall how my friends and I figured this out, if we discovered it or just heard about it, but it became standard practice to carefully insert a finger into the disc drive and slow the spinning disc when loading up a copied disc in order to defeat any complaints from the OS. Not sure why this worked but it always did :)

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#115
post #18

Slightly off-topic, but since when were floppies referred to as "disc", as opposed to "disk"? I thought it was from Diskette? Is it a language / region thing? Optical discs were "disc", but at least growing up in the UK in the 80s/90s with DOS/Windows, I'm pretty certain I remember them always being "disk" for floppies? Am I misremembering?

Isn't this simply because disk is short for diskette? Which is the word for a floppy often used in the 80's and 90's.

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#116

I don't recall how my friends and I figured this out, if we discovered it or just heard about it, but it became standard practice to carefully insert a finger into the disc drive and slow the spinning disc when loading up a copied disc in order to defeat any complaints from the OS. Not sure why this worked but it always did :)

That was also a trick to try and get a disk (of your own) that was having troubles to at least read to back it up.

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#117

Wouldn’t this be trivial to defeat once you know how it works though? Make a bit-for-bit copy, then overwrite track 9 with the new obfuscated lengths.

Not the Beeb but this copy protection was also used on the Apple II for example which is why we ran with the cases off so we could adjust the speed screw to match track lengths. There was software that would visually feedback the track length so you could get it spot on.

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#118
Not the Beeb but this copy protection was common even quite early on the Apple II. We we ran our disk drives with the cases off so we could adjust the speed screw to match track lengths. We had software that would visually feedback the track length so you could get it spot on.

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#119
post #5

Who recalls the provenance of this old legend about the fellow who challenged his pal to decode a certain floppy? It was a bog-standard DOS boot disk (IIRC) that he could put in his machine and boot normally. But his pal put it in his computer and... nothing doing, no boot. Analysis of the floppy availed not. The challenge went unmet. What did our hero do to make the floppy? .esrever ni nups evird eht os ytiralop eti…

Was this fellow a white haired gentleman in a velvet smoking jacket who travelled in a police box? He was always solving problems like that.

Sometimes there's two of them, and they ytiralop eht esufnoc

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#120
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Analysis of the floppy availed not. It's not a very good puzzle if the only clue is "I dunno he looked at it real squinty and it didn't help." Apparently any alternate formatting would have tripped up the friend.

It's a good story and you are nitpicking.

I was complaining about the framing, not the story. The story is fine as a story.
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