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Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

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Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#111

Post by pjmlp »

jevgeni wrote: post #99
webmobdev wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want ALL my subscriptions to go through Apple Pay and App store. You do so only because you believe have no choice as you know that your democracy is so crippled that you don't expect them to protect your rights as a consumer any more! Where as many Europeans and Asians, who also enjoy democratic rights, will tell you openly that we would prefer that our democratically elected government protect our consumer righ…

First of all, as a European, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Try cancelling your mobile contract in Germany early. Secondly, I might want to buy/subscribe to things that come from companies outside of EU.

Depends if you are willing to have some support from Verbraucherschutzzentrale or not.

I can tell you that my almost impossible to resign contract from Vodafone got quickly sorted out with their help.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#112

Post by Closi »

ignoramous wrote: post #93
john_minsk wrote: post #28

I just paid for 12 months worth of Skype subscription which I have used for just 2 calls back in January. I want ALL my subscriptions to go through Apple Pay and App store. Once I subscribed to New York times. The newspaper that was advertised to me for years in all Hollywood movies as a place where honesty and freedom are of highest priority. I had to spend an hour on a phone with their representatives to cancel it…

> Each bank got their app and added some obvious features there: pay for utilities, for your phone etc. I want more progress here. I want to be able to see all my fees upfront in a clear format. I want to know my credit score. I want to be able to take this credit score to different organizations. etc. etc. Brace for impact: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ronshevlin/2020/11/30/google-pl...

Most of this we have had in the UK for years (e.g. Monzo).

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#113

Post by rglullis »

pjmlp wrote: post #111
jevgeni wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, as a European, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Try cancelling your mobile contract in Germany early. Secondly, I might want to buy/subscribe to things that come from companies outside of EU.

Depends if you are willing to have some support from Verbraucherschutzzentrale or not. I can tell you that my almost impossible to resign contract from Vodafone got quickly sorted out with their help.

Still, it's not some universal right given by the wonderful democratic utopia that GP claims to live on, is it?

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#114

Post by matwood »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #77
laurent92 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it funny when people describe the beliefs of middle-ages as bigoted, believing God more than Galileo (or so the legend says) when clearly today, some masses clearly believe in states being the originator of public good, and some corporations being worth worshipping. Civilizations have evolved, but humans still be humans ;)

I agree it's rather silly for an adult to have a strong emotional attachment to a corporation. I can understand a child feeling that way about the company behind their favourite products, but it seems unbecoming in adults. The best example might be Apple 'fanboys'. (I don't know of a gender-neutral term here. Fanboy implies an excess of appreciation, but fan means something weaker.) I don't see that it has much to do…

> The best example might be Apple 'fanboys'.

Visit some investor forums and search for TSLA sometime. They make Apple fans look tame :)

With that said, and it may be my own bias kicking in, Apple anti-fans seem way more passionate than fans. The anti-fan cannot understand why any rational person would ever use a product from Apple.

All of the above completely pales in comparison to the best example of adult fanaticism - political affiliation.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#116

Post by rglullis »

Closi wrote: post #109
tshaddox wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, okay, it may be the case that our democracy is so crippled that it can’t protect basic consumer rights. But even so, what are we supposed to do? Quit our jobs, abandon our livelihoods, and take to the streets until our government decides we’re too much trouble and hands over power to a more consumer-friendly replacement government? Or just continue to want to use subscriptions through Apple where possible?

How about just enforce a standard which all companies have to follow through legislation? (See: Open Banking)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#117

Post by simonh »

john_minsk wrote: post #28

I just paid for 12 months worth of Skype subscription which I have used for just 2 calls back in January. I want ALL my subscriptions to go through Apple Pay and App store. Once I subscribed to New York times. The newspaper that was advertised to me for years in all Hollywood movies as a place where honesty and freedom are of highest priority. I had to spend an hour on a phone with their representatives to cancel it…

Indeed, I'm fed up with people criticising Apple because it refuses to instruct it's employees to criminalise themselves. Nobody expects any other companies to do this. It's bizzare to me how distorted a moral framework can be that people blame a company for obeying bad laws, as if breaking laws and criminalising employees was an acceptable and moral way to run a business.

Sure a company can fight governments in court, if that option is available, but if it isn't or if that approach runs out, that's the end of the line. At the end of the day it's the governments and laws that need to change.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#118

Post by pjmlp »

rglullis wrote: post #113
pjmlp wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends if you are willing to have some support from Verbraucherschutzzentrale or not. I can tell you that my almost impossible to resign contract from Vodafone got quickly sorted out with their help.

Still, it's not some universal right given by the wonderful democratic utopia that GP claims to live on, is it?

Last time I checked everyone is free to ask for their help.

Now if we are discussing that their support should be gratis, ok that is another matter.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#119

Post by ghaff »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #89
lqet wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Religion is a touchy subject. Oddly enough, as I have come to discover in these pages, so is Apple. This has also been my experience. I know people with whom I just avoid talking about Apple. Personally I just accept that Apple is their religion (some of them have Apple bumper stickers) and that religion is something deeply personal.

It's curious that Apple have been more successful in inspiring this kind of zealotry than have the FSF. The power of good marketing I suppose. As I indicated in my other comment in this thread, I think such 'corporate fanboyism' can be considered a kind of immaturity.

I would say the FSF certainly has. It's just a far smaller group. Probably smaller than the group that finds them rather off-putting. And, of course, far smaller still than the group that doesn't care if, in fact, they've heard of the organization at all.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#120

Post by vetinari »

simonh wrote: post #117
john_minsk wrote: post #28

I just paid for 12 months worth of Skype subscription which I have used for just 2 calls back in January. I want ALL my subscriptions to go through Apple Pay and App store. Once I subscribed to New York times. The newspaper that was advertised to me for years in all Hollywood movies as a place where honesty and freedom are of highest priority. I had to spend an hour on a phone with their representatives to cancel it…

Indeed, I'm fed up with people criticising Apple because it refuses to instruct it's employees to criminalise themselves. Nobody expects any other companies to do this. It's bizzare to me how distorted a moral framework can be that people blame a company for obeying bad laws, as if breaking laws and criminalising employees was an acceptable and moral way to run a business. Sure a company can fight governments in cour…

> people criticising Apple because it refuses to instruct it's employees to criminalise themselves.

That's not what they criticize.

They criticize Apple because Apple positioned itself to be the sole actor capable of enforcing such a bad laws. That they do it, surprised nobody.

In this case, if they were not capable of destroying Telegram on iOS platform, their request would have no teeth and even the governments would not ask Apple to do it in the first place.

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