“I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews” • Hacker News Board

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#111

Post by kmonsen » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 4:47 AM UTC

AmericanChopper wrote: post #59

dx87 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I burned myself out really bad trying to go above and beyond for a few years at various companies. Just ended up frustrated, making no more money than people coasting in the same position, and still got laid off during downsizing instead of the people who spent time playing office politics and going out to happy hour with the supervisor. I feel kind of guilty now though, because I actually managed to get hired…

Working hard for a raise/promotion is a losing strategy. Working hard so you can change jobs every 18-24 months with big salary jumps is rather easy to do consistently. Trying to get a promotion is deciding to compete for one position in one company with essentially every qualified candidate in the world. It’s easy to see how looking for a better job every so often has better odds for success.

I don't think so at all. I have worked hard, and had a lot of fun at now two of the FAANG's. Sure the reward has not been like winning the startup lottery, but if you told myself 20 years ago I would have this impact and earn this much money I would not have believed it. I totally suck at politics, and have seen others rise quicker, but doing good work does get rewarded in my experience.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#112

Post by kmonsen » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 4:49 AM UTC

ra7 wrote: post #82

jdreaver wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is inconsistent with my experience in my most recent round of interviews. I interviewed at a few places at a senior/staff level, and most of my interviews were behavioral, architectural, or discussions about past work. The few leetcode-style or coding questions I had were easily prepared for from my ~40 hours of interview-specific coding prep. There is zero chance I would have gotten those interviews or passed t…

I completely agree with his, as someone who has recently completed several interviews for senior level. I used to think everything depended on Leetcode questions, but I was surprised to find out how much of the focus was on design, past experience and leadership. Leetcode is "easy" to crack with some (considerable) amount of hard work and they know that. But you can't make up past experience in behavioral interviews…

Yes, but in my experience you need both. If you are not willing to put in some time at leetcode it might not go well. Of course you can still get lucky, but better to be prepared.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#113

Post by userbinator » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 4:50 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #55

decafninja wrote: post #12

Unless you've made it to your "endgame" company that you're happy to stay at for a while, I feel investing anything more than the bare minimum to get your assigned work done is worth less than just grinding leetcode and otherwise studying for interviews. Doing an actual good job, above and beyond, is not going to be worth much when you're looking for your next job. Thus we're now seeing the rise of Professional Inter…

Our industry feels like it's in the decline of the Roman Empire right now. Our craft is becoming arcane: Microsoft is building VSCode for the cloud. Few people own desktop computers anymore. Apple is locking down MacOS to signed binaries. Soon we'll all have thin clients and will write software in the cloud for the cloud. Few will be able to learn how to engineer at home anymore - you'll have to go to a university or…

It can all be summed up in two words: corporate greed.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#114

Post by tomcat27 » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 4:51 AM UTC

dilyevsky wrote: post #105

tomcat27 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A simple for-loop? that's ridiculous. If that's really the case I wonder the screening abilities of recruiters more than candidates.

Literally a scan of string with some basic logic and three cases inside. People would take 30 mins+ and create a giant mess. This was easily 50%+ cases during phone screen and resumes all looked good so not recruiters fault (most of the time).

Hard to believe. Actually I am surprised companies even asks such a simple question anymore. When was that?

I have done several LC easy and mediums, have done internships and published papers and didn't even make it to phone screen at every FAANG or other companies whose names carry some weight in future interview opportunities.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#115

Post by icedchai » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 4:52 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #24

mav3rick wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your endgame ?

To me, the "best" endgame is to obtain enough saved capital to found your own (small?) business to which you can generate and capture value directly.

I think the best endgame is financial independence... having enough invested capital so you can live off the proceeds. FIRE.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#116

Post by mooreds » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 4:53 AM UTC

ra7 wrote: post #82

jdreaver wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is inconsistent with my experience in my most recent round of interviews. I interviewed at a few places at a senior/staff level, and most of my interviews were behavioral, architectural, or discussions about past work. The few leetcode-style or coding questions I had were easily prepared for from my ~40 hours of interview-specific coding prep. There is zero chance I would have gotten those interviews or passed t…

I completely agree with his, as someone who has recently completed several interviews for senior level. I used to think everything depended on Leetcode questions, but I was surprised to find out how much of the focus was on design, past experience and leadership. Leetcode is "easy" to crack with some (considerable) amount of hard work and they know that. But you can't make up past experience in behavioral interviews…

Me too. I interviewed at a few places in March for senior roles and there wasn't any algo gotchas. Some coding, I think mostly to make sure I could code. But a lot more emphasis on architecture and team skills.

So maybe there's the gap between senior roles and mid/jr/new.

But my question then is, how are senior folks training/picking folks to replace them? It must not be happening in the interviews, maybe on the job?

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#117

Post by AmericanChopper » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 4:53 AM UTC

kmonsen wrote: post #111

AmericanChopper wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working hard for a raise/promotion is a losing strategy. Working hard so you can change jobs every 18-24 months with big salary jumps is rather easy to do consistently. Trying to get a promotion is deciding to compete for one position in one company with essentially every qualified candidate in the world. It’s easy to see how looking for a better job every so often has better odds for success.

I don't think so at all. I have worked hard, and had a lot of fun at now two of the FAANG's. Sure the reward has not been like winning the startup lottery, but if you told myself 20 years ago I would have this impact and earn this much money I would not have believed it. I totally suck at politics, and have seen others rise quicker, but doing good work does get rewarded in my experience.

I guess this observation doesn’t really apply to the FAANGs quite as much. They have such an insatiable demand for labor that it’s much easier to work your way up to more money consistently over time.

I guess you just find the level you want to coast at. I haven’t won the start up lottery either. But I have been able to be fully employed as a contractor with a very good hourly rate for quite a long time. Which probably means I’m coasting right now. But I still manage to bump my rates up every so often, so maybe not.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#118

Post by jariel » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 4:56 AM UTC

_9omd wrote: post #93

zug_zug wrote: post #8

A rather tired conversation in my opinion. Everybody likes to complain about interviews, but every single alternative I've heard is even worse: Take-homes are biased toward those willing to work hours for free, a "track record" is biased toward those who inflate their resume, a casual conversation is biased toward the likable and native english speakers, high-level whiteboarding is biased towards people who are good…

Yes, it's extremely tired. FAANG companies are not dumb, they hire at scale and know how to find talented engineers using a rigorous/repeatable interview process. I think most of the complaints come from people who fail these interviews (I used to be one), and don't want to admit that maybe they're not good enough.

"how to find talented engineers using a rigorous/repeatable interview process"

There's not much evidence that they are doing the best at hiring for those wth 7+ years experience by using said interview styles.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#119

Post by Apreche » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 4:56 AM UTC

I refuse to take any such tests, and I've had no trouble finding employment. In a world where recruiters are blowing up your inbox, the ball is in your court.

One time I interviewed somewhere. It wasn't a perfect job, but I would have taken it if the offer was good. After the interview they called and wanted me to take some kind of test. I said no. They called me at least two more times to see if I wouldn't reconsider. That made me think wow, they must really like me from the interview. Why not just make me an offer? But no, they didn't call back after I firmly denied them. Maybe they learned a lesson, maybe not. Not my problem.

And that's the final lesson. If a place has this kind of hiring process, that is already a red flag that this is not a good place to work. Even if you took the test and they made you an offer, it would not be a good time working there.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#120

Post by romanhn » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 4:56 AM UTC

In order to prepare for eng manager interviews a couple of years back, I quit my job and spent several months on Leetcode and system design. This is with 8 years of management experience at the time and many years without hands-on coding. I landed a FAANG job as a result, something I would have 100% not been able to accomplish without the prep, so I suppose it was worth the effort.

The not-at-all-surprising end result is that my role has no coding or system design expectation, nor is there time for that even if I wanted it. I'm exactly the same person, doing a not-entirely-dissimilar job to my prior experience, yet I would not have been considered a desirable candidate had I not jumped through these hoops that bear no relation to actual responsibilities.

Now that I'm on the inside, I don't see any particular conspiracy to select for people that are willing to jump through hoops. Yet I have a hard time reasoning out why else my candidacy would undergo such a drastic transformation otherwise. It's a sad state of affairs indeed.