US ends era of emotional support animals on planes • Hacker News Board

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#111

Post by colejohnson66 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

macdamaniac wrote: post #86

meowfly wrote: post #8

I wish there were better options for people to travel with their pets over long distances. There are plenty of horror stories of pets who have died in cargo. I would be willing to pay for a seat, or even a row, to take my dog on a cross country flight. Setting aside the absurd cases, like emotional support peacocks, I think a lot of the emotional support animal shenanigans are simply people not wanting to cargo their…

I have a pretty unpopular take on this, being married to someone with severe pet allergies. That take is, dogs (and cats) have no place on an airplane, and responsible adults shouldn't get pets that they can't find sitters for or board while they are away. Planes are enclosed-air spaces, and the allergens from your dog make anyone with allergies miserable for the entire duration of the flight. Every single time we en…

> That take is, dogs (and cats) have no place on an airplane, and responsible adults shouldn't get pets that they can't find sitters for or board while they are away.

And for the situation where you’ll be away for a long time? It’s cheaper to take a pet aboard a plane than to board for a few weeks. But there should be better options than either (1) the cargo bay or (2) in the cabin with everyone else.

> Actual service animals do still belong, because they provide an actual service, are extremely well-trained, and are worth the allergen/phobia tradeoff because folks who need them literally need them.

Emotional support animals absolutely are a thing. The problem is everyone abuses the idea. But for someone with depression, just having your dog or cat next to you can keep you sane better than your medicine can. I know, because that someone is me. Do I take my pet everyone? No, but they absolutely do help when needed.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#112

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

vectorphresh wrote: post #42

A clear example of “This is why we can’t have nice things”, if ever there was one. This definitely sucks from a consumer point of view, but understandable when the focus becomes passenger safety. Service dog training can be verified and as such abusers can be filtered out of consideration.

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Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#113

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

crazcarl wrote: post #64

maxk42 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the laws here are really stupid. ESAs are not covered under federal law. But service animals are. However - there is no accreditation program for service animals, so you cannot ask for proof that an animal is a service animal. You are also not allowed to ask a person what their disability is or demand they demonstrate some sort of proof of either disability or specialized training in their animal. So essentially…

This is incorrect per the article. It clearly states "Wednesday's rule change by the US Department of Transportation now says only dogs qualify as service animals." So no, the airlines don't have to accept someone's service animal that isn't a dog.

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Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#114

Post by Ericson2314 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #88

mwfunk wrote: post #70

I'm all in favor of people who need them having emotional support animals, but for as long as this has been a thing I have been totally shocked at how many people I personally know (who I thought were better people than this) completely abusing it to bring their pets with them everywhere (planes or anywhere else where you don't normally take pets). And joking about abusing the system, and joking about how awesome it…

I'm with you on the overall abuse of the system. But given that the alternative is often putting the animal in the cargo hold, it's understandable. It's too bad regulators haven't banned that practice while they're at it.

Yeah if we make it so the best legal and ethical way to move you and your pet is take the train....hell yeah.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#115

Post by denimnerd46 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #91

gravitas wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About a decade ago I used a service "We Move Pets", who at the time was specializing in transporting pets across North America (CA/US) for pro sports players, NBA and NHL etc. It wasn't cheap (and required I go get special vaccinations and paperwork, understandable) but it worked out great - they were passing by my city and had room on the van to take on another pet to the same destination I was going. Looks like the…

Care to share how much it cost? I'm also surprised the players didn't just get to bring the pets on the charter plane they travel around the country on, if only for that initial move.

May be why the service failed, the athletes can do that. Or maybe that's what the service was needed: when you sign as a free agent or get traded there isn't any charter plane heading to your new destination; it's up to you to get there.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#116

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #88

mwfunk wrote: post #70

I'm all in favor of people who need them having emotional support animals, but for as long as this has been a thing I have been totally shocked at how many people I personally know (who I thought were better people than this) completely abusing it to bring their pets with them everywhere (planes or anywhere else where you don't normally take pets). And joking about abusing the system, and joking about how awesome it…

I'm with you on the overall abuse of the system. But given that the alternative is often putting the animal in the cargo hold, it's understandable. It's too bad regulators haven't banned that practice while they're at it.

> I'm with you on the overall abuse of the system. But given that the alternative is often putting the animal in the cargo hold

That is hardly the only alternative. There are other forms of travel and it is quite likely that your pet will be better off at home with a sitter or boarded while you're gone.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#117

Post by danbolt » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

Miner49er wrote: post #68

bluGill wrote: post #66

Good. I have nephews who are deathly allergic to dogs. They cannot go many places for fear of random dog encounters.

Service dogs are still allowed.

Service dogs tend to have pretty regular grooming regimens to minimize dander exposure. They're also well-trained not to make as much noise or interact with people.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#118

Post by colejohnson66 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #85

vectorphresh wrote: post #42

A clear example of “This is why we can’t have nice things”, if ever there was one. This definitely sucks from a consumer point of view, but understandable when the focus becomes passenger safety. Service dog training can be verified and as such abusers can be filtered out of consideration.

Merchants are not allowed to ask for proof of a dog being a service dog. https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm >When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, req…

> ... or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.

How is that even supposed to work? “Hey, can you have a seizure so we can see your dog do its job?”

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#119

Post by jfengel » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 8:50 PM UTC

pjmorris wrote: post #25

FTA, 'Trade group Airlines for America'... how many trade groups are there? What does it take to form one? What kind of influence do they carry?

Tens of thousands. The web site OpenSecrets has lists:

https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying

The even have their own trade association:

https://www.taforum.org/creating-a-new-trade-association/

Setting one up is easy; you just incorporate. Influence ranges from "zero" to "able to get meetings with Congresspeople on important committees". The meetings are the important part. You can't actually bribe your way to power, but you get to tell them what you want and how that benefits their constituents.

That's easy for an airline, which employs a lot of people and impacts travel for everybody. They use a group to speak with one voice and (perhaps more importantly) know who to talk to (which isn't just elected representatives but also the decision making people at in the executive branch).

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#120

Post by macspoofing » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 8:50 PM UTC

vector_spaces wrote: post #79

Reading the comments on this thread is genuinely depressing. It's amazing how callous people can be to simply say "good" and move on, nevermind that people actually benefited massively from this and that most of those people used it in good faith, and likely did not attempt to bring ostriches and ponies aboard. Not to mention the comments that say something to the effect of "well even if it did help a few people, it…

I think you're beating down a strawman you created. Nobody is against accessibility for disabled.

The problem is that there were no standards around this policy and it was abused without any clear indication that it helped anyone. There is also little clinical evidence that ESAs ameliorate patient symptoms, and much less that they help around travel.

Policies around ESAs, like anything, require effort to implement and support, and therefore need good evidential support ... instead of an emotional appeal.