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Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

npr.org

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Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#111

Post by dontbeevil1992 »

hnlmorg wrote: post #87
TheRealSteel wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way that capitalism works is to prevent proper regulation.

[flagged]

...so far. Other countries have some mechanisms - legal and cultural - in place that have resisted the creep of capitalist power concentration better than the U.S. has. But I'm pessimistic - I think globally we'll continue to see taxes cut, social safety nets dried up, and privatization of benefits, like has been happening in the UK. It just seems to be the tendency of capitalism.

edit: I invite downvoters to let me know why they disagree, besides "capitalism good"

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#113

Post by badRNG »

cle wrote: post #94
badRNG wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You are unreasonable for calling out a bad thing, since I can conceive of an even worse thing."

It’s not unrelated, when talking about pay and working conditions it’s all relative to the rest of the economy and sits in that context, pointing out other parts of that context is perfectly relevant (though it obviously can’t paint a complete picture). We should of course be mindful of whataboutism when discussing these things but I think it’s a good idea to consider the economic and social context when talking abou…

The discussion is about Amazon hiring Pinkerton operatives to spy on employees suspected of organizing even when they are off work. This was an interview with the journalist who broke the story as a continuation. [1]

Deflecting criticism with "some workers have even more upsetting conditions than these" doesn't help either party, moreover it actually shuts down an important discussion relevant to both. We shouldn't tolerate any business crushing dissent the way Amazon does; that's what is being discussed here.

[1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dp3yn/amazon-leaked-reports...

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#114

Post by QuesnayJr »

patwolfe wrote: post #58
pksebben wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not just the way the world works. it's the way capitalism works. I don't think it's unfair for people to be fed up with watching these things happen while the root causes continue to be largely taken for granted.

Agree that the root cause here is not Amazon, it's a system (unregulated capitalism) that incentives this behavior. I think it's still fair to criticize actors in such a system, especially if such criticism is done with the context that these companies and their bad actions are the product of that system and that it would be positive for most of the workforce for that system to be better regulated.

Unregulated? American unions are tightly regulated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#115

Post by hanniabu »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #81
dalbasal wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who identify strongly with unions, union-busting stuff like this is triggering... like "bringing up the war" in a war traumatised nation. I get that. But... 2020 isn't 1920 or even 1980. Fresh eyes might see more clearly. To the advantage of union organisers, mass communication and organisation is a lot easier today. Surveillance is easier too. IDK. Yes, Bezos does not want an amazon union and won't just le…

> Yes, Bezos does not want an amazon union and won't just let it happen without a fight. Same as always. Which is, if I recalled correctly, illegal.

Not if you're rich

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#116

Post by smabie »

vidarh wrote: post #103
mikestew wrote: post #3

"Pinkerton: for over one-hundred years, the ones to call when you've got a union problem." I mean, that has to be their schtick, right, even if it's unspoken? Because that pretty much sums up what I know about Pinkerton, so I would assume they are happy with that. As for the topic at hand, yeah well, that's what companies do...for over one-hundred years as well.

To the point where if someone ever introduces themselves to me as a Pinkerton employee, my first instinct would be to assume they're immoral and not someone I want to know. It's a company with a history of supporting exploitation wherever it's gone.

how many Pinkerton employeee have you met? Also, you know what they say about assumptions..

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#117

Post by rmrfrmrf »

jamiequint wrote: post #95
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > We need to note that Amazon is an NPR funder. The original Motherboard article [0] is extensive. The NPR version is deliberately incoherent. [0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dp3yn/amazon-leaked-reports...

You actually believe that Amazon has editorial control over NPR and specifically exerted that leverage to make this article incoherent?

One of the common threads in media critiques like Manufacturing Consent and Hate, Inc. is that direct editorial control is not necessary in order to promote your agenda. Control of money and access, along with ideological indoctrination of journalists at elite universities, is all that's needed. See also my comment below about NPR listenership and trust in Amazon as an institution.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#118

Post by clort »

downrightmike wrote: post #68
fennecfoxen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exact same people? I marvel at their longevity! 128+ years is quite an accomplishment!

Corporations are people, legally.

Only partially, since corporations can be owned by people and other corporations, yet owning people is not legal.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#119

Post by badRNG »

formercoder wrote: post #61
dalbasal wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who identify strongly with unions, union-busting stuff like this is triggering... like "bringing up the war" in a war traumatised nation. I get that. But... 2020 isn't 1920 or even 1980. Fresh eyes might see more clearly. To the advantage of union organisers, mass communication and organisation is a lot easier today. Surveillance is easier too. IDK. Yes, Bezos does not want an amazon union and won't just le…

Tough ask for an average warehouse employee to practice enough opsec to hide the talks from Amazon.

Harder still, if they retain Pinkerton agents to spy on you even after you clock out [1]

[1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dp3yn/amazon-leaked-reports...

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#120

Post by lovegoblin »

dnissley wrote: post #57
patwolfe wrote: post #18

Really disappointing to see the "Well, what did you expect?" comments already. Just because companies have been trying to prevent organization of their labor for over a century doesn't mean it isn't still messed up now. It's easy to say that it's just the way the world works from your desk, the people who are forced to work in Amazon's warehouses with terrible working conditions don't have that luxury.

Where do we draw the line? What tactics are ok for a company to use to combat unions if it doesn't want them? Or should companies just accept and work with any union that forms?

> What tactics are ok for a company to use to combat unions if it doesn't want them?

Won't somebody please think of the companies? :'(

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