The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’ • Hacker News Board

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#111

Post by jingw222 » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

_9omd wrote: post #92

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…

It’s extremely difficult and requires lots of will power to dispose of your five different devices vying for your attention when you’re feeling “bored”before bed. These are like electronic drugs that makes everything enjoyable instantly available to us at a tap of a finger. However the joys coming out of screen are impulsive and transient, which increasingly makes me long for the simple and enduring fun time of the early days.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#112

Post by kayodelycaon » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

shakhahxhcj wrote: post #102

kayodelycaon wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets worse when sleep isn't fleeting. Waking up every two hours and then struggling to get back to sleep really draws out the misery of working long hours. Note: Before anyone tries to give me advice, my depressive episodes cause primary insomnia. Whatever you think will work, won't. It's been tried.

Ever tried mirtazapine? It’s an antidepressant that’s also a sedative. You take it every night before bed. Works great for me.

What part of no advice... sigh

No. I'd like to avoid my psychiatrist sending me to the ER again.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#113

Post by robbyking » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

_9omd wrote: post #92

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…

> I've lived the majority of my life (mid 30s now) waiting for "my time".

As expected, becoming a father cost me a lot of free time, but when I started working from home I lost my commute (usually walking, sometimes biking) and that was the one that really stung.

It was only a half hour or so each way, but I used that time to catch up with friends, listen to podcasts or music, or just let my mind wander. Now I have to really make an effort to carve out "me time," and with the Covid time tax it's really difficult.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#114

Post by pontus » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:22 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #106

malux85 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day. A lot of this has to do with cultivating the right attitude and not getting exploited by others. At work, don't allow your employer to work you to the bone; work at a steady and enjoyable pace, take lots of breaks to socialize with colleagues, get coffee, go for walks, eat a long lunch in the park, etc. ^ This people, THIS. Programmers…

Don’t overexaggerate the facts. Programmers are /not/ in massive demand. Even skilled ones. It’s why there’s essentially no compensation growth for the last few years outside of FAANG. All growth has been through stock. The sheer massive number of people entering the field and how hard it is to get a job as an engineer should make this more obvious. If massive demand were true, we wouldn’t have ever increasingly diff…

One of the contributing factors here is that many places outside FAANG that hire programmers are not particularly profitable nor do they envision any exponential growth in their future. As such, they can't afford to pay their programmers the "insane" salaries that FAANG companies can offer.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#115

Post by prower » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

kerblang wrote: post #99

underseacables wrote: post #9

It’s interesting the use of the aggressive language “revenge“ And “retaliatory” which seems to have a negative charge. I wonder if it is due to the culture of China, its communist leaning, or something deeper that looks at personal leisure time as a bad thing.

Interesting that the most downvoted comment is the only one concerned with China instead of "Yeah but let's talk about me!"... China has a culture of "labor" as the symbol of one's personal worth, and this ties into the Maoist/Communist ideal of empowering _labor_. In America, "idleness" might be the _reward_ of labor, or even a _kind_ of labor: thinking, imagining, talking, creating ideas themselves: "idle" labor. I…

If your government/culture looks at you like an ant, of course it'll judge you only by your net output.

Other than a "thank god I'm not Chinese", I'm not sure what other discussions one could have without going onto politics and being considered and anti-chinese.

I love chinese and japanese culture, but their particular work ethic is total nightmare and wrong on every level and needs to disappear as soon as possible.

EDIT: I'm currently sleep deprived (of course...) so I'm sorry if this comes out harsher than needed.

2ND EDIT: Other than that, this is not even a work ethic/culture problem, is that many current working practices are not suitable for human survival beyond basic functions. It doesn't change if you're chinese or not.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#116

Post by graeme » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

robbyking wrote: post #113

_9omd wrote: post #92

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…

> I've lived the majority of my life (mid 30s now) waiting for "my time". As expected, becoming a father cost me a lot of free time, but when I started working from home I lost my commute (usually walking, sometimes biking) and that was the one that really stung. It was only a half hour or so each way, but I used that time to catch up with friends, listen to podcasts or music, or just let my mind wander. Now I have t…

This may seem overly simple, but is it possble for you to start and end the workday with a 30 min walk?

I’ve worked from home for a decade and that’s part of my routine. I go through a local park.

You’d have to negotiate this with your spouse, but you were already using that time before, so in theory it ought to be reasonable. Unless your kid was born this tear that’s a but trickier.

Burning out does nobody any good in the long run and exercise and walking are human needs.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#117

Post by cbanek » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

“One of the most important parts of recovery from work is sleep. However, sleep is affected by how well we detach,”

This. Plus, I have done this in the past and found that it just takes time to wind down after working, no matter how tired I am. It's at least 3 hours for me. It seems more the problem is there aren't enough hours in the day to work that much. But sadly, that rarely changes, and if I prioritize work over life, it will simply take over.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#118

Post by collyw » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #104

_9omd wrote: post #92

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day.…

Part of this is establishing a narrative that you will be less productive when burnt out than you are now, where you disappear an extra 20 minutes a day to be outside. There was a point where I was worried about my fitness, which reached its apex when I had a long commute and a stressful job. Some research was published that changed my life. Cardio improvement can be seen with 3x7 minute intervals, rather than the pr…

> Cardio improvement can be seen with 3x7 minute intervals,

Where do you get those details from? Fitness and nutrition advice seem to change more often that the favoured JavaScript framework of the month.

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#119

Post by dwaltrip » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #106

malux85 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day. A lot of this has to do with cultivating the right attitude and not getting exploited by others. At work, don't allow your employer to work you to the bone; work at a steady and enjoyable pace, take lots of breaks to socialize with colleagues, get coffee, go for walks, eat a long lunch in the park, etc. ^ This people, THIS. Programmers…

Don’t overexaggerate the facts. Programmers are /not/ in massive demand. Even skilled ones. It’s why there’s essentially no compensation growth for the last few years outside of FAANG. All growth has been through stock. The sheer massive number of people entering the field and how hard it is to get a job as an engineer should make this more obvious. If massive demand were true, we wouldn’t have ever increasingly diff…

It's hard to get your first software engineering job, but it is it any different than other industries?

I don't think it is difficult to find a new job once you are established as a reasonably competent engineer. Do workers in other industries get constant messages via Linkedin and email for job opportunities?

Re: The psychology behind ‘revenge bedtime procrastination’

#120

Post by mschild » Tue, Dec 01, 2020, 5:39 PM UTC

collyw wrote: post #118

hinkley wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of this is establishing a narrative that you will be less productive when burnt out than you are now, where you disappear an extra 20 minutes a day to be outside. There was a point where I was worried about my fitness, which reached its apex when I had a long commute and a stressful job. Some research was published that changed my life. Cardio improvement can be seen with 3x7 minute intervals, rather than the pr…

> Cardio improvement can be seen with 3x7 minute intervals, Where do you get those details from? Fitness and nutrition advice seem to change more often that the favoured JavaScript framework of the month.

See ACSM [0] article and the cited papers for more information.

[0]https://journals.lww.com/acsm-healthfitness/Fulltext/2013/05...