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New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

cyclingtips.com

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Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#111

Post by Yetanfou »

filmor wrote: post #81
Yetanfou wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...which at ~€1100 costs more than many people will spend on a bike, weighs more than a full set of sprockets and a derailleur, is less efficient due to the staged planetary drive, can only be repaired by sending it back to the factory, can (like other planetary drives) not be shifted under load and as such is more of an interesting novelty than a real solution to the stated problem.

Good internal hub gears can be shifted under load, and the Rohloff one is probably as good as it gets.

The Rohloff can not be shifted under load. You can shift by quickly letting off power, shift and then resume like you can do with other planetary gear systems.

Here's a discussion on the subject of shifting under load, with opinions from "both" sides:

http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4172.0

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#112

Post by brudgers »

Yetanfou wrote: post #60
kleer001 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot less range Maybe in the more popular implementations like from Shimano. But there's internal hubs with greater ratio spread than chained: The Rohloff: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/internal-gears.html

...which at ~€1100 costs more than many people will spend on a bike, weighs more than a full set of sprockets and a derailleur, is less efficient due to the staged planetary drive, can only be repaired by sending it back to the factory, can (like other planetary drives) not be shifted under load and as such is more of an interesting novelty than a real solution to the stated problem.

All the gears on an internal hub are usable, there's no overlap. These days the ubiquitous Shimano Nexus hubs can shift under load. For the kind of bicycle most people buy they are a reasonable alternative because there isn't a fragile derailer, there's no double shifting, and the adjustment is static alignment of two yellow marks.

In terms of friction, there are no jockey wheels and the chainline can be perfectly straight. Anyway, the internal friction of a geared hub is going to be unnoticeable for an average cyclist because the tires will be under-inflated, the chain covered in crud, and the brakes will be rubbing on untrue wheels.

But like everything it's a tradeoff.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#113

Post by klyrs »

filmor wrote: post #81
Yetanfou wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...which at ~€1100 costs more than many people will spend on a bike, weighs more than a full set of sprockets and a derailleur, is less efficient due to the staged planetary drive, can only be repaired by sending it back to the factory, can (like other planetary drives) not be shifted under load and as such is more of an interesting novelty than a real solution to the stated problem.

Good internal hub gears can be shifted under load, and the Rohloff one is probably as good as it gets.

I ride a Rohloff and you do not shift them under load. Most of the shifts will tolerate a light load, but going from 7-8 while steaming up a hill will immediately bind the gears and you need to backpedal a few teeth to get it unstuck. By the time that's all sorted, you've lost your momentum and need to downshift again, not to mention taken months off of the lifetime of your very expensive hardware. As you can probably tell from my description, this is a mistake I've made. Binding up your brand new $1500 transmission is a great lesson to never do that again.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#114

Post by usr1106 »

mauvehaus wrote: post #94
leoh wrote: post #9

Great chain, but the Gates Carbon Drive is likely a superior technology. Europe has largely adopted it, but it is rare in the states. I have a Riese & Müller bike with a Gates Carbon Drive and it is absolutely lovely. Silent, but best of all, no grease on my pants or hands, ever. They handle dirt and dust super well (just dry off and wipe down with a cloth/no gears get jammed with a sealed planetary gear system). It…

I have to be honest, when IKEA launched the Sladda, I had high hope that they'd sell a zillion of them so I could pick one up barely used for a pittance in a couple years. Sadly, that seems to have not happened, and we'll have to wait a bit longer for the belt drive to become commonplace :-(

Wasn't that the one subject of a recall because the belt could break? Recall for refund, not for repair. So a complete failure.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#115

Post by Theodores »

This chain is a nice idea but a solution in search of a problem. Right now it is track bike and e-bike only, so not even for hub gears.

The track market is miniscule and we'll catered for. Then the e-bike market does not need a 2 percent gain in chain performance.

The enemy of the chain is dirt. Real world cycling in the 1950s had hub gears and a big case to keep the dirt out. Then derailleur gears aimed at the sports market dropped the chain case. This made sense for cyclists with a team car behind them.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#116

Post by forest_dweller »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #88
rdiddly wrote: post #66

I'll tell ya what I see: no rollers. Pins rubbing (wearing) both sides of the tooth. Including the back side, which will never exert any forward longitudinal force on a chain unless it's made of magnets. I also see a highly suspect FEA diagram on the right, where teeth not even engaged still show non-zero stresses (lighter blue, not the darkest blue), indicating that the color/stress scale has been changed compared t…

> I guess I'm a bit (to use one of Bike Snob NYC's favorite words) nonplussed. JK Rowling taught me that nonplussed is apparently a part of the daily vernacular in the UK.

Not really. I've never heard it used in the the general publice. It is normally used by office manager types and by talking heads in politics.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#117

Post by Yetanfou »

analog31 wrote: post #101
Yetanfou wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've destroyed a number of Sturmey Archer planetary drive clutches - the square cross-shaped bit which transfers force from the sprocket holder to the drive - by just using them, leaving me wary of planetary drives. While I've also gone through derailleurs they do seem to handle power better than planetary drives and have the additional advantage of feeling far more like a direct drive. One of the advantages of a bic…

Then you're a stronger cyclist than me, because I've ridden S-A AW hubs for decades and have broken Zero of them. I've have had them open to determine that they tend to stay in pristine condition under normal use. But the common IGH's do come with specs for minimum gear ratio front to back (2:1, I think), suggesting an implied torque limit. I've always wondered which part was the weak link. The cogs wear out under no…

> I've always wondered which part was the weak link.

Well, now you know... especially in 3d gear (when the cross drives the planetary hub by engaging on the top of the cog axles) the clutch is under high load. I often rode that bike with a heavy trailer (made from a shipping crate and some moped wheels which I happened to have lying around) to haul my guitar, amp and saxophone through the Dutch countryside to practice with my band, this may have put too much of a load on the hub.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#119

Post by forest_dweller »

Every so many years I see a post like this where they claim to have improved the drive chain of bicycles and they really never go anywhere, mainly because they aren't compatible with other kit.

I've built and repaired quite a few push bikes over the years I am still using fairly standard shimano kit. The problem with exotic equipment is that even decent shops might not be able to repair it and it normally requires specialised tools.

I mucked about with Campag and some other exotic kit and it is always a PITA as you always have to go hunting around for parts of ebay after a few years because threads and tapers on things like bottome brackets aren't compatible.

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