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‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

nytimes.com

111–120 of 717 posts

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this hard to imagine without someone getting reprimanded. Not disbelieving the person's quote, but not accepting it as fact either. Seems like it would be easy to get corroborating witnesses for a situation that inappropriate. The only group I've seen it be permissible to make stereotyped observations about in the last decade in an SF tech office is european/indian/chinese workers. FWIW I don't think that's ok…

A lot of people traffic in blatant stereotypes in the guise of some kind of positive statement, which makes reprimands less likely. I once had a speaker tell us - in a diversity seminar! - about specific racial groups he thinks are too timid to speak up for themselves.

Our execs have short text guides on how to work best with them and everyone on my team has been encouraged to share similar. The default assumption is everyone should be working together to accommodate on how we can all work best together.

I've been in environments where certain communications styles are labeled more correct or ideal. So I've really loved this guidebook + accommodation approach.

I went into this article with an open mind about there possibly being toxicity I haven't witnessed w/i the company. But tbh the evidence comes up short and just doesn't match with what I've seen. I have interviewed at companies where some level of toxicity was easy to pick up on during the onsite (eg Uber during peak growth years).

My fear is that this article might scare away diverse folks from Coinbase, and possibly even crypto at large given some of the descriptions about the industry at the end. CB is a really great company for any curious nerd to join. I'd also say the Ethereum community and associated startups+labs are especially welcoming and friendly.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#112
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can think of contexts, especially when n=15(if this was a statistical study on insulin response to artificial sweeteners, people would be saying the sample size is too small to draw conclusions), but I don't know if developing hypothetical scenarios is useful. Learning the true context is most important. This could be done by corroborating allegations for example.

> I can think of contexts Yes that's what was asked; which ones ? > especially when n=15(if this was a statistical study on insulin response to artificial sweeteners, people would be saying the sample size is too small to draw conclusions) And those people would be wrong. It's incorrect to dismiss a study based on sample size without a discussion of significance and effect size in the context of the data. Moreover I…

Okay - one context is where one department has a large number of black people, and that department is defragged for purely business reasons to a different office across the country. Most people never choose the relocation package, and so a big chunk of black employees end up quitting. That's the event that triggered 8 black employees of the 15 who left as I understand it from the article.

> what are your priors on whether or not a given company engaged in discrimination, and how do these change if you're told 75% of employees of a particular demographic stated there was discrimination?

I completely agree that it's a very bad look. It is probably even more likely than not that given those facts, it is due to racism. I guess the question comes down to, philosophically, how one answers the following question: In the quest to eradicate racism and racists, is it better to be over-zealous and destroy a few non-racists to make sure you get all the actual racists(the chemo approach) - or is it better to be slightly more circumspect and let a few racists slip through the cracks so that far fewer non-racists are punished (the US judicial system ideal)?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Coinbase's "About us"[1] > They don't know how to get women on a panel 2 out of 7 members of the exec team are women. > they don't know hot to get qualified people of color in positions to change things 4 out of 7 members of the exec team have last names of Choi, Chatterjee, Grewal, Gupta. It's almost as if you have strong biases (or delusions) and didn't even do a basic fact check before making bold claims agai…

Where is the Hispanic and Black representation? I see 3/15 people on that page being women, not a very strong point for a group that is 50% of the population. This is the standard SV makeup. Do a random sample of any large tech company and this is the team you’d get. This tells me they’re not doing anything different.

There are not enough qualified black people in that job market, what is this that Americans have that difficult to grok?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#114
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you order the claims in the article on a scale of not racist at all to clearly racist, you'll see basically all of the corroboration comes from claims on the left side of that scale, and few if any on the right side. The claims I was specifically thinking about were things like: > One Black employee said her manager suggested in front of colleagues that she was dealing drugs and carrying a gun, trading on racist s…

We don't need to corroborate each individual complaint. The story here isn't that one employee was passed over for a promotion. The story is the trend that all these anecdotes support. There is corroboration for the trend.

But the point is that the corroborations are all on the lesser or non-complaints of the article, not the most egregious ones. To make an extreme example, posting a series of actual facts that culminate in aliens have visited earth doesn't make the latter assertion any more true.

edit: Sorry, I'm the poster from above, I just posted from my phone which has a different account logged in that I originally intended to give hiring advice unlinked to my main account(opsec fail).

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the Hispanic and Black representation? I see 3/15 people on that page being women, not a very strong point for a group that is 50% of the population. This is the standard SV makeup. Do a random sample of any large tech company and this is the team you’d get. This tells me they’re not doing anything different.

There are not enough qualified black people in that job market, what is this that Americans have that difficult to grok?

If true, what are they doing to change that? When I was at Google there were zero paths to bring in people with potential and train them up. I’m guessing it is the same at Coinbase. Doing nothing to address the problem then pointing at your H1Bs and patting yourself on the back.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the Hispanic and Black representation? I see 3/15 people on that page being women, not a very strong point for a group that is 50% of the population. This is the standard SV makeup. Do a random sample of any large tech company and this is the team you’d get. This tells me they’re not doing anything different.

There are not enough qualified black people in that job market, what is this that Americans have that difficult to grok?

Americans think that is

a) bullshit

b) even if it wasn't bullshit, the companies improve with the representation to adequately ship products to markets that they would otherwise ignore

c) both kinds of people are benefits to the companies, as there is a greater priority to address markets than cater to egos of internal employees

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#117
post #91
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customer Service is often regarded in companies like insurance is regarded by most people—you gotta have it, in a perfect world you’d never need it, and very few people brag about how much they pay for it. That’s why Customer Service isn’t treated like the Rock Stars that Sales or Engineering is treated like in a company. It also tends to have the most natural turnover, and tends to be the lesser skilled positions in…

yeah it’s unfortunate even at a finance startup that CX is so disregarded. Coinbase doesn’t exactly have a great CX reputation eg lots of horror stories plus it seems to go down every time there’s a big move up or down.

CX folks at CB are doing God's work. Nothing but respect for them on my eng team at CB. At past companies I had to do a lot more legwork to dive into an issue; our CX folks are incredibly technical and have great instincts on identifying, grouping, and triaging issues as well as providing just the right amount of context.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#118
I do not give a hoot about skin color. MLK taught me to judge people not by the color of their skin. If I were to tone down my speech, because I focus on the color of the skin of my audience, I would feel bad and awkward: "these people deserve coddling due to their skin color" ranks close to "these people deserve scorn due to their skin color".

Accusing others of racism is a serious faux-pas. It is also delusional to think someone talking down to you, is caused by the color of your skin, and not, maybe, because you deserved a talking down to, or the person is just an asshole, and talks down to everyone.

Saying someone else got a promotion, because their white skin, despite being lower skilled than you, is a horrible thing to say, and a horrible thing to believe. It would be vile distracting paralyzing racism, instead of an opportunity to reflect and grow.

If racial equality activists make you feel that way, judge others on the color of their skin, and paint decision-making of white people that way, then this activism is not doing you any favors. It is not making you stronger. It is making you a victim. It sours inter-racial relationships.

If a manager really says something along the lines of "watch out for her, she is dealing crack in the ghetto, and secretly carries a gun everywhere." then that manager is fired everywhere in the world, and the Black employee is compensated for this evil. No company wants to keep such managers around. No need to invoke tricks like paying off an external investigator. That manager is gone.

Yet, that manager is still around. No complaint was filed. No colleague stepped up. So what really happened? A joke gone wrong? Being above racism led to problems with an employee for who being black and female is the major two traits of their group/social media identity, and now they can't help but relate every interaction, to whites hating their skin color, or the patriarchy keeping them down?

Racism is gross, but this "I am being discriminated against by these elite white tech bros, because they notice my skin every day, promoting their dumb jocks over me, again due to the color of my skin, and nobody is willing to stop that" is even grosser. It is sexist, slanderous, weak, prejudiced, generalizing, blameful, divisive, and racist.

The taboo-ness of the topic is wielded as an effective weapon by activists. They realized early on what the power of calling someone's employer, conference organizers, or hinting at company racism can do to stifle opposing views and criticism, and the economic damage they can inflict on a brand. Even if totally out of line and false, such as accusing white business owners of cultural appropriation by selling Asian food, can get such a business cancelled, because people are afraid to be tarred and feathered by association. Socially ostracized without ever a court to fairly validate if you really furthered (illegal!) racism. Portrayed by international media as some sort of neo-Nazi libertarian hellscape momcorp, without ever a court or independent investigation finding anything of real substance. Acquitted by a judge, yet constantly called a murderous racist, because you killed a black-skinned person at a traffic stop.

So what happens if you loudly overreact to perceived company racism? You start to promote diversity and inclusion programs. You start asking applicants for their skin color or gender. You bring back the focus on skin color, ideally looking for a Disney-style PR diversity representation that's obvious for the outside (black, female, flamboyantly gay). You, of course, hire a black gay female to run these diversity programs, because white straight males are not suited for the job. Start policing language and technical jargon, as to not offend their favorite social scholars. And what happens to me? I look twice at a new colleague. The second time I notice skin color and gender. And I can't help but wonder... did those factors contribute or was this the best candidate for the job? Well done, activists! I still take full blame for that sub-second racist/sexist take (which I abhor), but it didn't have to be that way.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#119
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why wasn't that treated as an emergency? Companies can be incredibly callous about retention issues, especially if fixing them involves noticing which managers are responsible for behaving badly towards their staff.

"Callous" would mean it's about you, but think about it from the viewpoint of the company. If the aggrieved employee leaves, the problem is solved.

[deleted]

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#120
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need to corroborate each individual complaint. The story here isn't that one employee was passed over for a promotion. The story is the trend that all these anecdotes support. There is corroboration for the trend.

But the point is that the corroborations are all on the lesser or non-complaints of the article, not the most egregious ones. To make an extreme example, posting a series of actual facts that culminate in aliens have visited earth doesn't make the latter assertion any more true. edit: Sorry, I'm the poster from above, I just posted from my phone which has a different account logged in that I originally intended to gi…

The egregious complaints are corroborated by the other egregious complaints.

Let's use another example in which evidence is hard to find: sexual assault. If one woman accused Bill Cosby of sexual assault, the burden of proof for her story is high. She would need some pretty strong evidence to get Cosby charged let alone convicted. She probably wouldn't even receive coverage in the mainstream media without some other form of evidence. However the entire situation would change if she was one of 60 women coming forward. Suddenly the burden of proof for that first woman is greatly diminished. Each individual's story is corroborated by someone else having a very similar story.

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