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PHP 8

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Re: PHP 8

#111

Post by Kim_Bruning »

EGreg wrote: post #67
Kim_Bruning wrote: post #42

Finally, after all these years, Named Arguments! https://stitcher.io/blog/php-8-named-arguments

Look, 10 years ago I tried — really tried — to get the PHP team to adopt it. I am glad they finally came around: https://www.mail-archive.com/internals@lists.php.net/msg4587... Excerpt of the proposal: So why am I saying all of this? Well, PHP up until 4 had a reputation for lots of bad coding style, spaghetti code, etc. With PHP 5 and better OOP, this reputation has lessened, especially with the great libraries out…

Thank you for your efforts back then.

And now you stand vindicated!

Re: PHP 8

#112

Post by theSIRius »

baby wrote: post #80
farresito wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must be very picky, because to this day I still don't like it at all. It sucks less than it used to maybe, but if I compare it to other languages, I still would rather use anything else.

I think you have to do webdev to really enjoy it, I never write PHP unless it's something with laravel.

As usual, it really comes down to personal preference. In the past year, I have managed a few things in Wordpress, wrote my own PHP, Flask and node sites; and after all that I would 100 % choose Flask or node over PHP.

Node has the advantage of same language back and front, "asynchronous" execution and having both dynamic typing and static typing with TypeScript. And huge ecosystem obviously helps as well.

Python also has pretty sizeable community and Django is probably a huge reason why a lot of people choose python over anything else. And the syntax, at least to me, feels much less cumbersome than PHP. But I have not tried PHP 8 at all.

Re: PHP 8

#113

Post by fbelzile »

combatentropy wrote: post #70

I got spoiled by PHP as my first language. It was so easy to get going. I was surprised to learn that other languages didn't work the same way, when integrating into a web server. Also it has always been rock solid. A bug in my code brought down only that request for that user, totally did not affect or even slow down responses to other users. People have attacked its syntax forever. I avoided the worst of it by lear…

I've never thought about it this way before, but it makes sense! I think I've been pushing things from the middle to the edges subconsciously but didn't have a solid understanding as to why. I got something out of this, thank you!

Re: PHP 8

#114

Post by idoubtit »

I get paid for writing PHP code, and the quality of the official PHP documentation worries me. I've searched for several of the changes introduced by the 8.0 version, and I could not find them. For instance, the page titled "Function arguments" does not mention the existence of named arguments.

The last time I wanted to submit a ticket about a documentation bug, I saw that the ticket was already created months ago. I'm surprised the PHP process can introduces changes without the related documentation update.

Re: PHP 8

#115

Post by nicoburns »

acomjean wrote: post #43
erikpukinskis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean without the magic?

I think they mean stuff in Laravel framework and Ruby on Rails. Like database access where you can just use it as an object without worrying about queries and such. This is great, gets projects up fast.... until you need to do something different. It generally comes at the expense of flexibility.

Most ORMs allow you drop down into RAW for all or part of the query, so you haven't really lost any flexibility.

Re: PHP 8

#116

Post by kyriakos »

dagw wrote: post #62
meowster wrote: post #48

How should one start learning with PHP these days? My experience: hacked together a few PHP scripts over the years to notify me of a website change (5 minute cron job). Before that, I was a very good beginner with VB6 back in highschool. There are a couple of ambitious database-driven website projects I would like to create, but I don't know where to start. I like the KISS philosophy, and I think PHP and MySQL would…

Modern PHPs shining light is the Laravel framework and the ecosystem built up around it. If you're going to start a database-driven website projects in PHP there really isn't a good reason to not use and learn Laravel (or Lumen if you want something more lightweight). That being said if you're not tied to PHP I'm not sure I'd necessarily recommend it. The obvious alternatives worth looking into are Ruby on Rails or P…

Laravel is good and bad for the ecosystem at the same time. I've interviewed a lot of people lately who know laravel but not php. Similarly to people who claim they know react but fail in the most basic js questions.

Re: PHP 8

#117

Post by http-teapot »

baby wrote: post #83
combatentropy wrote: post #70

I got spoiled by PHP as my first language. It was so easy to get going. I was surprised to learn that other languages didn't work the same way, when integrating into a web server. Also it has always been rock solid. A bug in my code brought down only that request for that user, totally did not affect or even slow down responses to other users. People have attacked its syntax forever. I avoided the worst of it by lear…

> I was surprised to learn that other languages didn't work the same way, when integrating into a web server Oh boy... I'm still not sure how you deploy a non-PHP webserver to be honest... every language seems to be doing something different, with php you just needed to drag & drop your files in the "public" folder.

> I'm still not sure how you deploy a non-PHP webserver to be honest... every language seems to be doing something different

Coming from PHP and having used a bunch of different languages I can understand what you are saying.

Unlike PHP, the other languages run in a process that listens on a port (80, 443 or another). The single process continuously run and handles multiple requests.

Back then, I still had to use NGINX or Apache with PHP, and in retrospect I find that more difficult to understand than a script that listens on a port.

Re: PHP 8

#118

Post by ericbarrett »

Facebook’s backups were written in PHP. Well, the second version was, anyway. (The first version didn’t work so well.) By backups, I mean the central MySQL databases with profile and post information; not media or messages. The “Crown Jewels,” so to speak.

It was written by an engineer in a week or so and then handed off to me. I was a storage guy with some programming chops. Fewer chops than I thought.

Multiprocess, forking, long-lived, server-side, I/O intensive PHP. And it worked brilliantly. Over the following years, it scaled from a backup set of a few hundred TB to many, many petabytes.

I extended the code quite a bit, fixed a bunch of bugs (it was version 0 when it launched, no hate to the guy who wrote it), and added statistics for reports and coverage.

The main reliability problem ended up being when we switched to HPHP, the predecessor to HipHop. Since the primary and largest customer of this code was the web front-end, changes there would often break our backend code. One I remember was changing fork() to only start a new green thread; saved $millions on the front end, completely broke backups. We ended up getting a special posix_fork() function or something from the HPHP team that restored the old behavior.

Eventually I rewrote it in Python 2.7. It took me two complete attempts and then a further six months of tweaking to get it anywhere near as stable as the PHP version, even with brilliant guys like Haiping Zhao constantly re-weaving the carpet under our feet. I never did like it as much as the PHP version.

Re: PHP 8

#119

Post by [deleted] »

laszlokorte wrote: post #90
combatentropy wrote: post #70

I got spoiled by PHP as my first language. It was so easy to get going. I was surprised to learn that other languages didn't work the same way, when integrating into a web server. Also it has always been rock solid. A bug in my code brought down only that request for that user, totally did not affect or even slow down responses to other users. People have attacked its syntax forever. I avoided the worst of it by lear…

REMOTE_USER as in HTTP Basic auth? the ugly login prompt you can not logout of again?

[deleted]

Re: PHP 8

#120

Post by EGreg »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #111
EGreg wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, 10 years ago I tried — really tried — to get the PHP team to adopt it. I am glad they finally came around: https://www.mail-archive.com/internals@lists.php.net/msg4587... Excerpt of the proposal: So why am I saying all of this? Well, PHP up until 4 had a reputation for lots of bad coding style, spaghetti code, etc. With PHP 5 and better OOP, this reputation has lessened, especially with the great libraries out…

Thank you for your efforts back then. And now you stand vindicated!

Somehow one guy was really sure it will never happen:

https://www.mail-archive.com/internals@lists.php.net/msg4804...

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