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WTF Happened in 1971? (2019)

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Re: WTF Happened in 1971? (2019)

#111

Post by jeffasinger »

xyst wrote: post #86
ZacharyPitts wrote: post #10

Amazed that the site does not call out Nixon completely abandoning the gold standard in 1971. Financial investments thusly did not need to be backed by actual assets anymore, to the point of today where the whole of money is loans against loans against loans.

Random thought: since the US dollar hasn't been backed by a physical asset in decades, does it really make sense to prosecute a person(s) for "stealing money." Stealing implies you have taken something of value and requisitioned it for ones self, but since money has no actual value was it really stolen? Especially in the digital age, the numbers you see in your bank account are just 0s and 1s sitting dormant in some…

If dollars have no value, you should be willing to give away any dollars you have to anyone, no matter how they are using them, right?

Dollars don't have a direct value in gold, but there are people willing to take your dollars and exchange them for gold, it's just a ratio that varies over time, along with the value of gold and dollars.

Re: WTF Happened in 1971? (2019)

#112

Post by mrlala »

bluedino wrote: post #34

Would increases in computers and automation have anything to do with it? And have wages really gone down? As a whole, we're richer than ever. We own more possessions, have bigger houses, spend more money on luxuries, etc.

>And have wages really gone down?

If you include things like the cost of

Homes Healthcare *Education

Then wages have gone wayyyy down. And then if you factor in things like employer pension plans back then.. well, crazy further.

Now if the argument is "well we have more luxuries".. I mean, sure.. but it just seems an impossible task to raise a family and pay for home/healthcare/education compared to what it was even 30 years ago.

Re: WTF Happened in 1971? (2019)

#113

Post by bwb »

rapsacnz wrote: post #102
bwb wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hmmm... dropping energy isn't going to help with the big costs families face in terms of health insurance and costs, day care, college costs, or housing. Am i wrong :)?

Pretty sure that the cost of energy underpins almost everything we do or produce. I can't think of a single example that doesn't have a large energy component. For example, health insurance is made up of the cost of paying people and creating medicines - and ultimately, it comes back to food, extracting raw materials and paying down debt, all of which are affected by the price of energy. So dropping energy costs will…

ya but i am not sure anyone of the things i named will drop by 5% or more... and mean while they keep going up faster than inflation...

Cheap energy is good, but i worry more about our ability to afford those things.

Re: WTF Happened in 1971? (2019)

#114

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

0898 wrote: post #15

How do economists measure "productivity", and it is a worthwhile metric? It always seemed super sketchy to me.

Conservative economists also regard "compensation" as tricky to define. One defense of these graphs is that "real compensation" has actually increased much more than wages.

Assuming that you agree with any given definition of "real compensation", that still leaves open the question of whether wages, which are 100% fungible, can be replaced by non-fungible compensation.

Re: WTF Happened in 1971? (2019)

#115

Post by zeroxfe »

xyst wrote: post #86
ZacharyPitts wrote: post #10

Amazed that the site does not call out Nixon completely abandoning the gold standard in 1971. Financial investments thusly did not need to be backed by actual assets anymore, to the point of today where the whole of money is loans against loans against loans.

Random thought: since the US dollar hasn't been backed by a physical asset in decades, does it really make sense to prosecute a person(s) for "stealing money." Stealing implies you have taken something of value and requisitioned it for ones self, but since money has no actual value was it really stolen? Especially in the digital age, the numbers you see in your bank account are just 0s and 1s sitting dormant in some…

> since money has no actual value

Ah, the intrinsic value debate (which your entire argument hinges on) never gets old.

Setting that debate aside, money has market value -- it's not backed by gold, but it's backed by the power of the government, by the trust of the citizens, and by very strong social expectations. A storekeeper is more likely to accept your money than your gold.

Re: WTF Happened in 1971? (2019)

#116

Post by ethbr0 »

backtoyoujim wrote: post #96
treeman79 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always underestimate the cost of regulations. Even when good, the cost is big. Health care is a good example. Keeping patient data private is a good thing. However it’s also absolutely crushing in its impact in the industry. Tiny projects can take months or years. HIPPA terrifies so many IT people. Driving away top developers.

I'm OK with the "Move Fast & Break Shit" crowd staying far from my medical history thankyouverymuch.

You say that... but you'd be surprised how chaotically the sausage is manually made in the inner workings of health care.

Provider side has it semi-sorted (at least within the same facility).

Everyone else (insurance, etc) is attempting to clean semi-structured / inaccurate data passed to them, and generate a coherent result.

Re: WTF Happened in 1971? (2019)

#117

Post by Blahah »

addicted wrote: post #47
mason55 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the point of the site. It doesn’t say it explicitly but leaving the gold standard is the answer to the question in the URL

Alternatively, whatever forces led to the government taking as major a step as leaving the gold standard is responsible.

Not alternatively. Leaving the gold standard may have been one proximate cause, while the desire of the government to have simple tools to provide short term economic relief in the face of complex socio-economic problems is one ultimate goal.

Re: WTF Happened in 1971? (2019)

#118

Post by rib3ye »

aazaa wrote: post #107

Plenty of events to choose from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971 Highlights: - "A new stock market index called the Nasdaq Composite debuts." - "Starbucks, a major coffeehouse and outlet in worldwide, is founded in the U.S. State of Washington." - "The U.S. ends its trade embargo of China." - "President Richard Nixon declares the U.S. War on Drugs." - "Southwest Airlines, a low-cost carrier, begins its first…

Not specifically happening in 1971, but one could argue this is the start of the Information Age and subsequent "digital divide"

Re: WTF Happened in 1971? (2019)

#119

Post by DickingAround »

backtoyoujim wrote: post #96
treeman79 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always underestimate the cost of regulations. Even when good, the cost is big. Health care is a good example. Keeping patient data private is a good thing. However it’s also absolutely crushing in its impact in the industry. Tiny projects can take months or years. HIPPA terrifies so many IT people. Driving away top developers.

I'm OK with the "Move Fast & Break Shit" crowd staying far from my medical history thankyouverymuch.

If you don't mind, why exactly? You're worried the care will get screwed up? Or you worry that someone will steal that data and charge more for insurance?

I'm just wondering about why exactly the paradigm doesn't totally work here. I get that we don't want medical devices failing, but that's different than charting. And I get it that we don't want everyone to have your data. But risking that someone does a data copy vs. reducing healthcare costs seems perhaps a risk worth taking (and it's not like the insurance companies who actually charge us money don't already have it).

Re: WTF Happened in 1971? (2019)

#120

Post by ploika »

xyst wrote: post #86
ZacharyPitts wrote: post #10

Amazed that the site does not call out Nixon completely abandoning the gold standard in 1971. Financial investments thusly did not need to be backed by actual assets anymore, to the point of today where the whole of money is loans against loans against loans.

Random thought: since the US dollar hasn't been backed by a physical asset in decades, does it really make sense to prosecute a person(s) for "stealing money." Stealing implies you have taken something of value and requisitioned it for ones self, but since money has no actual value was it really stolen? Especially in the digital age, the numbers you see in your bank account are just 0s and 1s sitting dormant in some…

US dollars clearly do have value though. It's foolish to claim otherwise.
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