Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

helsinkibusinesshub.fi

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 632 posts

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#111

Post by stevekemp »

volument wrote: post #26
howlgarnish wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they don't mention is the length of those seasons, which in Finland consist of winter, winter, winter and construction. Even in Helsinki snow can fall as early as September and as late as May.

It used to be like that, but that's no longer happening. Last winter, there was no snow in Helsinki at all :(

Although there was snow and ice as late as May, just around the time I'd planted my carrot-seeds, potatoes, etc.

Summer is short enough that there's basically only one growing season for food so that last minute cold-snap really ruined my planting plan!

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#112

Post by siavosh »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #106
siavosh wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish humanity didn't need a military but saying the world's largest military doesn't give anything back is a bit misleading. Some would argue the world's largest military enable the post WW2 order and with it the free trade that most of the world depends on. So in a very concrete way, the American tax payer subsidizes much of the world's economy. Now in a post cold war with the growing isolationist tendencies of Am…

I think the point is that you can choose to go live somewhere that is not the USA and you continue reap the benefits you describe, all the while paying a different countries taxes and personally benefitting much much more. If I was an American, I wouldn't want to be footing the bill for Global Security either.

That's a valid strategy, akin to geo-politicial arbitrage. But with trends as they are arbitrages don't last forever.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#114

Post by PopeDotNinja »

jjav wrote: post #57
Devils-Avocado wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: 24% VAT (sales tax) 18% employer payroll taxes 10% employee payroll taxes 20-30% typical income tax Take your American disposable income and cut it in half. Still worth it for 'free' education and 'free' healthcare? Also a lot of cold and darkness.

> Still worth it for 'free' education and 'free' healthcare? No brainer, absolutely worth it. Even making good money in Silicon Valley I'm perpetually afraid of medical bankruptcy if something were to happen. And the cost of education here takes another 15% off my salary for schools far lower quality than in Finland.

I had a six figure income in San Francisco & insurance, and still ended up medically bankrupt. Bike accident, head trauma, unable to work, work tied to job... employer sponsored healthcare sucks if your ability to work is compromised.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#115

Post by Sharlin »

ksdale wrote: post #60
Devils-Avocado wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: 24% VAT (sales tax) 18% employer payroll taxes 10% employee payroll taxes 20-30% typical income tax Take your American disposable income and cut it in half. Still worth it for 'free' education and 'free' healthcare? Also a lot of cold and darkness.

If these numbers are correct, the payroll taxes total about 13% higher than American payroll taxes, but if you add in what Americans pay for the health insurance that’s presumably included in one of these taxes, it’s probably fairly similar. 20-30% is a very normal marginal American tax rate, and the VAT is high (looks like it may be lower for certain things), but not ridiculous compared to a lot of American state in…

> (looks like it may be lower for certain things)

Namely, 14% for food (both groceries and restaurant, excl. alcohol), 10% for books, exercise services like gyms, culture/entertainment tickets, hotel accommodation, public transit, and over-the-counter drugs (prescription drugs are heavily subsidized by the state).

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#116

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

hervature wrote: post #68
elevenoh wrote: post #4

This is neat. Some things I like about finland/helsinki: Happy down to earth citizens, socially liberal with far less echochamber/signalling/two-faced bs than california for instance, tons of Finnish sauna, & great air quality for a big city.

Helsinki is 600,000 people and 400/km^2. That's essentially the same as Oklahoma City. I know OKC has a basketball team and city is in the name, but most people wouldn't call OKC a big city and wouldn't be surprised by better air quality compared to places with millions of people.

Helsinki itself is only 600,000 people, but Helsinki has fused into a single big city with the neighboring municipalities of Espoo and Vantaa (and a bunch of smaller ones), and the total population exceeds one million people.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#118

Post by h0l0cube »

klipt wrote: post #84
socialdemocrat wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not like taxes disappear into a black hole never to be seen. Most of that money comes back to you in the form of services Americans would have to pay for anyway. What matters is what the taxes give you. A lot of American taxes don’t give people much of anything. Maintaining the worlds largest prison population is expensive but what exactly does that give the Average American? Worlds largest military also sucks…

> Worlds largest military also sucks up tax dollars but don’t give any benefits back. It's easy to say a military is worthless until you actually need it. But, Finland was under Russian occupation for decades. I would guess plenty of Finns wished they had a better military then.

> The approved 2019 Department of Defense discretionary budget is $686.1 billion.[34] It has also been described as "$617 billion for the base budget and another $69 billion for war funding."

You don't think it possible the US military could be any smaller and still defend its nation? Invading Iraq hasn't really had any fruitful outcomes, but absorbed more than a trillion of dollars of tax payer funds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#Aftermat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#119

Post by sellyme »

Devils-Avocado wrote: post #61
socialdemocrat wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not like taxes disappear into a black hole never to be seen. Most of that money comes back to you in the form of services Americans would have to pay for anyway. What matters is what the taxes give you. A lot of American taxes don’t give people much of anything. Maintaining the worlds largest prison population is expensive but what exactly does that give the Average American? Worlds largest military also sucks…

In Europe those services pay for a huge welfare and pension system, and healthcare which is mostly used by the elderly. Very little benefit will be received by a working-age expat.

It also pays for education, and you don't need to look at the US for long to see why it's worth investing in having literate citizens.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#120

Post by jrockway »

Devils-Avocado wrote: post #27
brryant wrote: post #2

This is honestly a great way for tech entrepreneurs to experience Nordic living. The fact is Finland has one of the most startup friendly environments around: — top schools (Aalto U. produces incredibly talented engineers) — startup friendly ecosystem (cheap rents, cheap internet) — Finnish work culture (direct, no nonsense, hard working but balanced) — fantastic food and beverage scene in downtown Helsinki My wife i…

Also: 24% VAT (sales tax) 18% employer payroll taxes 10% employee payroll taxes 20-30% typical income tax Take your American disposable income and cut it in half. Still worth it for 'free' education and 'free' healthcare? Also a lot of cold and darkness.

I am not sure that this is much worse than the US. The government gets about 44% of what it costs to employ me (that is, I'm including taxes that the employer pays the government, but come before the negotiated salary, if that makes any sense). I then pay about 9% tax on everything I buy (8.875% technically). This doesn't include any healthcare, housing, food, or savings for my retirement.

The cost of having a society is high. The big difference between Europe and the US is that there is some sort of safety net if you become unable to work. Here, you get a cardboard box under the highway and a stern lecture to try harder next time from a 104-year-old politician that's never had a real job in their life. It's good when it's good, but it can get bad fast.

Post reply on HN