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Why I, Jeff Bezos, Keep Spending Billions On Amazon R&D

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Re: Why I, Jeff Bezos, Keep Spending Billions On Amazon R&D

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at Amazon from 2004-2007. On one hand, Amazon does some really excellent and novel work like Dynamo and AWS (S3, EC2, EBS, etc). They organize developer conferences and bring in really good people to lecture. They hire really solid distributed systems people like Pat Helland and give them reign to work with engineering teams to improve their designs. On the other hand, when you're in the trenches of a produc…

Good engineering can't take a backseat to features, deadlines, and keeping things running. Good engineering IS features, deadlines, and keeping things running. If you aren't making features and meeting deadlines you aren't engineering anything. You're just messing around. Features and deadlines are the difference between science and engineering. There's never enough time, that's what makes it hard. Of course, Amazon…

I really didn't get the impression that the parent was disappointed he wasn't allowed to 'mess around'. If management doesn't give a flip about technical debt that's a problem.

Re: Why I, Jeff Bezos, Keep Spending Billions On Amazon R&D

#112
post #71
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's ridiculous. There are plenty of programs that output MS Word format , or even RTF.

Sure, but most of them aren't 100%, and tend to lose formatting nuances. My resume looks awful when exported to MS Word, so I always have to load it up in a pirated copy or on someone else's computer, tweak it there, and then send it on. I hate the idea of using commercial software that I haven't paid for, so it just irks me that this is required.

dude, in some companies these days, you better off not mentioning MS WORD as an integral part of your toolbox.

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Re: Why I, Jeff Bezos, Keep Spending Billions On Amazon R&D

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at Amazon from 2004-2007. On one hand, Amazon does some really excellent and novel work like Dynamo and AWS (S3, EC2, EBS, etc). They organize developer conferences and bring in really good people to lecture. They hire really solid distributed systems people like Pat Helland and give them reign to work with engineering teams to improve their designs. On the other hand, when you're in the trenches of a produc…

Too bad that Google doesn't touch the customer service standards at Amazon.

I bought an xbox and a game for it at the same time from amazon. The xbox was fine the game disk was defective. I contacted amazon via my account, got a call from a human in less than a half hour (mainly I'd say to confirm the xbox itself was OK), received the new game a couple of days later and a refund of my return costs for the game itself. The only (very) slight quibble I'd have was that the postage on the return exceeded what they refunded. They made the return process itself simple by emailing me barcoded return labels and frequent reminders. I feel very confident buying off amazon a lot more so than ebay for example

Re: Why I, Jeff Bezos, Keep Spending Billions On Amazon R&D

#114
post #60

Disclaimer:I work at Amazon as a dev manager. Working at Amazon does mean that you need to work hard, long and smart. There is a lot of technical debt to deal with too. But the technical debt did not come from bad design, but from the way business grows and changes. There is a 20% growth YoY. Inventories run into millions of products across multiple warehouses. We ship through multiple means and we ensure the product…

How long have you worked at Amazon and where are you based?

I have been there for about a year and based out of Hyderabad.

Re: Why I, Jeff Bezos, Keep Spending Billions On Amazon R&D

#115
post #108
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have anything that can (reliably) create .doc files that consistently view the same in MS Word as they do in the application I've created them (I create and update my resume in Pages on the Mac). Creating a PDF means I know what it'll look like when they see it. I once sent a .doc file to a potential employer, and when I arrived for my interview I saw that the font it had fallen back to (since it didn't have…

Google Docs? LibreOffice? Just make it simple, if they are about box ticking then it does not matter at all how well your resume looks (as e.g. a PDF version would). I mean I feel your pain, Word Docs give me the cold shivers, but there are some tools.

None of those things will produce a word document that looks exactly in Word like it did when I created it. This is the problem.

Re: Why I, Jeff Bezos, Keep Spending Billions On Amazon R&D

#116
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a "bad smell". Too many bad smells and you don't apply for a job, it's like Bayesian filtering.

Bayesian filtering that works both ways. In fact we currently take PDF/Word/txt/RTF at my job. I'd actual considering narrowing it down to just Word. The type of person who decides that they don't want to submit in Word is probably a type of person that's not a good cultural fit. And I guess we've already ruled out those that prefer to send their resume via smoke signals only. As an employer it is more important to f…

My CV is a PDF because I made it in LaTeX. I did that because .doc is not a standardised format, does not make the promise to look right on any system, and doesn't support some of the nicer typesetting I have going on. In my opinion, forcing people to use a proprietary locked-down format is the kind of thing that should be fought. What really gets my goat is that most of these places still don't accept .docx, even though it is standardised, well-supported, and absolutely TRIVIAL to pull plaintext out of for indexing purposes.

However, because I took the initiative to teach myself an industry standard text markup language in order to make a CV that looks really nice and will always display and print properly (and is distributed in the most widely-agreed upon document format for that purpose), you want to exclude me? I'm not submitting in PDF to be difficult or to take a stance, it's a convenient, standardised and well supported format which I am using for its intended purpose.

Comparing smoke signals to PDF is completely disingenuous, as is bundling together "people who happen to submit their CV to you as a PDF" and "people who would flat-out refuse to submit their CV as a .doc".

Re: Why I, Jeff Bezos, Keep Spending Billions On Amazon R&D

#117
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Docs? LibreOffice? Just make it simple, if they are about box ticking then it does not matter at all how well your resume looks (as e.g. a PDF version would). I mean I feel your pain, Word Docs give me the cold shivers, but there are some tools.

None of those things will produce a word document that looks exactly in Word like it did when I created it. This is the problem.

Word doesn't produce a document that looks exactly like the document you created unless only open and view that document on the same version of word you created it on. Everyone, even HR/business types, inherently know this from their years of dealing with Word.

In short, if your format messes up a little bit no one cares.

Re: Why I, Jeff Bezos, Keep Spending Billions On Amazon R&D

#118
post #104
post #83

This is only slightly on-topic, but regarding the service-oriented architecture that he mentions at the beginning of the article, how would one implement this internal? Specifically, how would you communicate with your internal services? Just an HTTP API? Is that fast enough? Another thing I'm wondering is what's the best way to handle internal authentication between your frontend and some backend service for example…

DotCloud [1] is built from the ground up around distributed services. We use a custom rpc mechanism called ZeroRPC. It uses ZeroMQ [2] for transport, msgpack [3] for serialization, and some extra glue for RPC mechanics, discovery, event dispatching, etc. Among other neat tricks, it allows us to handle synchronous RPC calls and asynchronous message passing in a unified way. It also maps transparently to any ZeroMQ top…

Oh, awesome, thank you!. I never thought to use ZeroMQ, but that would work perfectly. Ironically, it doesn't seem like DotCloud supports these sorts of architectures very well yet, any plans to fix that? ;)

Re: Why I, Jeff Bezos, Keep Spending Billions On Amazon R&D

#119
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bayesian filtering that works both ways. In fact we currently take PDF/Word/txt/RTF at my job. I'd actual considering narrowing it down to just Word. The type of person who decides that they don't want to submit in Word is probably a type of person that's not a good cultural fit. And I guess we've already ruled out those that prefer to send their resume via smoke signals only. As an employer it is more important to f…

My CV is a PDF because I made it in LaTeX. I did that because .doc is not a standardised format, does not make the promise to look right on any system, and doesn't support some of the nicer typesetting I have going on. In my opinion, forcing people to use a proprietary locked-down format is the kind of thing that should be fought. What really gets my goat is that most of these places still don't accept .docx, even th…

Fair points from both responders. Project Word Only aborted!

Re: Why I, Jeff Bezos, Keep Spending Billions On Amazon R&D

#120
post #5

Judging from things Steve Yegge has written about Amazon, and from friends of mine who have worked there, I don't get the impression that Amazon is a company dedicated to technical excellence. In particular I seem to recall something about 40 million lines of C++ code in their core product, and about mediocre engineering talent and high levels of burnout due to the technical debt they're required to deal with... In f…

I worked at Amazon.

Amazon is a company with a strong corporate culture, but this culture does not reflect reality. They talk about "door desks" and like to think they are a startup- but the door desks actually cost them more than if they bought regular office furniture.

I can only speak of the areas where I worked, but none of the management, even at the lowest levels, was made up of engineers.

My boss had his degree in criminal justice! He originally wanted to be a prison guard, but someone somehow got him a job at Amazon. His mentality was that of a prison guard, and by the time I left, he had driven away %60 of the engineers in our team from mistreatment. His boss (she wasn't an engineer either) backed him up and it was that way all the way up the chain of command.

It is really hard to write software in an environment where the boss thinks all the employees are lazy, thinks that changing his mind all the time is ok, and that any delays this causes or complaints are insubordination.

In fact, it was not uncommon for him to tell us to work on some system that was not part of our area, because he didn't understand how the software was structured. We had a big chunk of responsibility, but more than once he chewed us out for bugs that were in code handled by other groups!

One of the other sayings is "B players hire C people, but A players hire A people". The hiring process is extremely arbitrary-- for instance the guy with a criminal justice degree was interviewing programmers and in order to get hired you had to get his thumbs up.

The offices were way overcrowded. Probably four times the density of any of the startups I worked for (and about 8 times the density of Microsoft). I worked in a hall, and I was lucky. It was noisy and a high interruption environment.

The pay is mediocre and they like to play games with your compensation, including promising things and then not delivering.

As others have pointed out, the code base is a mess. The company is in the habit of rushing off in some direction and then dropping the project. For instance, they used to have movie listings and restaurant menus on their site. They also used to (or maybe still do) have a search engine. So they force code changes across the ecommerce codebase to support these things, and then, once the feature is launched the team is moved onto something else. When I left the restaurant menus and mail order catalogs were several years old. This produces a lot of cruft.

As a result, they have a lot of engineers and a lot of engineer turnover. They have the same random changes in direction as any company. (I remember one thanksgiving we had to give up because Bezos changed his mind on thanksgiving eve about something we'd raised several weeks earlier and could have taken care of in plenty of time)... but since things are so poorly managed these changes in direction involve a lot of time and wasted effort.

They hire a lot of H1B people. Good people and I enjoyed working with them, but this was one of the sources of engineer turnover. The poor treatment and poor environment generally meant that engineering projects were slow and expensive.

This is why Amazon spends a lot on R&D. Not because they are really innovative. I think that probably %3 of their engineering effort is made up of really innovative engineers who are insulated enough to actually cut new ground. The rest of the workforce-- no matter how talented the engineers may be-- are hobbled by the code base and the extremely poor management structure.

No question it was the worst company I've ever worked for-- and I've had some intense painful startup experiences.

Amazon is a retailer that thinks it is an engineering company, led by people who don't know how, or don't care to, produce a good engineering environment.

They really care about fulfillment and customer service, but they don't really care about their engineers and have no clue about how to be innovative (generally).

But Bezos likes to go out and make pronouncements-- like a politician-- about how he cares about R&D and how critical engineering is, and all that kind of bunk.

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