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Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

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Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#111
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont pray, just dont buy Apple Products

It's a frustrating road we are headed down. Tech companies have gotten so big that they don't really have to work together using standardization anymore. Options are limited, and most are anti-consumer in one way or another.

>Options are limited

No not really, but limited is the mindset of peoples.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#113
post #11

So? Users expect basic OS functionality (like the App Store, Maps, etc) to function. Do people really install Little Snitch (which I've used since 2005 or so) for blocking Apple's own apps?

Sure. I don't want Spotlight making network requests on a filesystem search.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#114

Both major consumer OS vendors seem hell-bent on bringing the OS layer under their complete control. As a power user, it's very frustrating. Meanwhile "desktop" Linux still kind of sucks, just like it did 10 years ago. I don't have much hope of seeing a compelling, unified UX out of Linux in my lifetime.

> bringing the OS layer under their complete control

To me, it seems the purpose is almost always to protect the average user from malware. What do you think their reasoning is?

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#115
post #3

A great example of why you need defense in depth. Ideally you'd be running the local firewall on your box, as well as an external firewall. That being said, this is not ok behavior on Apple's part. There shouldn't be a way for traffic to go around the firewall like this, even if it is just Apple apps. Because as Apple well knows, once you make a backdoor, someone will figure out a way to exploit it.

> Because as Apple well knows, once you make a backdoor, someone will figure out a way to exploit it.

I can't help but see this as the real reasoning behind the change. With EARN-IT on on the table and antitrust cases looming, they've got every reason to bend over and give governments whatever access they can.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#116
I wonder if it would make sense for Little Snitch to continue supporting their kext-based solution in parallel to the new one, possibly only for users who are willing to disable SIP.

You might argue that disabling SIP for a security product defeats the point, but I'm not sure if that's necessarily true. SIP effectively delegates trust away from the user and towards Apple, which is fine as a default—but the calculus may be different for experienced users, like the ones who use Little Snitch.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#117
Maybe if you block it randomly renders your OS inoperable and you won’t know why. Example iCloud login, could be a few obscure network calls. You would then call Apple and ask wtf if you are some noob blocking everything. This isn’t old days where there could be zero dependence on the net for critical function.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#118

That’s annoying yet pretty predictable, at least we’ve still got https://pi-hole.net/ as an option until DNS encryption becomes widespread :/

Not a pi-hole user, but what is the plan for pi-hole once encrypted dns is everywhere? Will it just be dead? I can’t really think of a way for it not to be.

You could have it spoof the keys and add its keys to your OS's key store.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#119

"You don't need kernel extensions, we'll provide APIs for you! We won't abuse the power that gives us, promise!" ...and now Apple has altered the deal and we must pray they do not alter it further. Disgusting. Predictable, expected, unsurprising -- but still disgusting.

Tim Cook's Apple Inc is really a nightmare. Sure we have sleek shiny laptops and devices that are amazingly powerful but at what cost? I still haven't found a trackpad as good as MagicTrackpad sadly otherwise I'd ditch the MacBook Pro.

To be fair to Apple though, it's their OS, they can do what they want and we agree every time we update MacOS or iOS. It's crazy to me that we basically only have 3 phone device choices, 2.15 environment choices (OS wise... Linux Desktop is crap, but getting better), and only 2 choices in GPU's, CPU's, etc...

What can we do about this?

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't you host pi-hole on a cheap VM and set it to be your DNS-over-TLS / DNS-over-HTTPS endpoint?

This assumes that your software is doing what you asked it to do, not what some bigco or malware wanted it to do.

firewall anything that doesn't go through your DNS server... at least thay way the malware will be obviously detectable.
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