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Tinnitus Treatment from Neuromod

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Re: Tinnitus Treatment from Neuromod

#111

Post by ineedasername »

becurious wrote: post #101
ineedasername wrote: post #97

Edit: I stand corrected, there is a specialized CE certification that reviews limited fitness for purpose, although it does not seem very comparable to something like FDA requirements for double blind testing etc., so I'm still highly skeptical. Original comment: There may be something here, but their presentation leaves a "snake oil" impression. Mostly because of their repeated emphasis on "CE" certification, as tho…

No, there is CE marking for medical devices in the EU which means it has achieved conformity for the Medical Devices directive. Generally equivalent to FDA regulation.

Thanks, I wasn't aware there was a more targeted review for medical devices, and updated my comment with a note to that effect.

However it does not seem comparable to a fairly rigorous FDA double-blind experimental process requirements, it only requires the manufacturer to provide a clinical evaluation that appears to be just a little more than a literature review [0][1]

[0]https://www.emergobyul.com/services/europe/ce-certification

[1]https://www.emergobyul.com/sites/default/files/eu-meddev-2_7...

Re: Tinnitus Treatment from Neuromod

#112

Post by lr4444lr »

meowface wrote: post #109
dasb wrote: post #19

I've been following tinnitus research and the most promising treatment is FX-322 [1]. It's a drug that will treat hearing loss, but it could also help diminish tinnitus. It's currently in phase 2a [2] and results come out next year [3]. [1] https://hear2tell.com/2020/09/29/frequency-therapeutics-fx-3... [2] https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04120116 [3] https://www.hearinglosstreatmentreport.com/estimated-fx-322…

>The researchers found that some body tissues regenerate much better than others. They studied the lining of the small intestine, which turns over roughly every four days, because it’s designed to absorb and distribute nutrients to other parts of the body. Drs. Karp and Langer saw the molecular pathways that signal the lining’s cells to turn over quickly and form new tissues. >Around the same time, another scientific…

Yep. Frequency Therapeutics could make a tremendous medical breakthrough here. But some caution is warranted, even in light of their promising human trials: cochlear cell regeneration and subsequent hearing restoration is observed in reptiles and birds, so there is reason to believe that they can coax mammalian ears to do the same thing, but it may not be as generalizable a result across the human body. But damn will people start trying mightily if it succeeds in the ears. That said, even simply finding a cure for sensorineural hearing loss is nothing short of perhaps one of the top 10 medical breakthroughs in the last 50 years if you look at the cost to society and prevalence of it.

Re: Tinnitus Treatment from Neuromod

#113

Post by scarlac »

mmaunder wrote: post #89

AirPods Pro caused both tinnitus and vertigo for me. Went away after a few days as soon as I switched to the older AirPods.

What you experienced may be a baseline change when using noise cancellation. It happens with all noise cancelling headphones after long use (for me). I am NOT an authoritative source on it but what I heard was that the brain makes a baseline for the background / silence and when that noise is removed (active noise cancelled) then the brain recalibrates which may cause the same symptom as tinnitus as the brain tries to cancel it out but supposedly without the permanent damage. I consider it "possible" but I haven't seen hard science on it.

Re: Tinnitus Treatment from Neuromod

#114

Post by meowface »

lr4444lr wrote: post #112
meowface wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The researchers found that some body tissues regenerate much better than others. They studied the lining of the small intestine, which turns over roughly every four days, because it’s designed to absorb and distribute nutrients to other parts of the body. Drs. Karp and Langer saw the molecular pathways that signal the lining’s cells to turn over quickly and form new tissues. >Around the same time, another scientific…

Yep. Frequency Therapeutics could make a tremendous medical breakthrough here. But some caution is warranted, even in light of their promising human trials: cochlear cell regeneration and subsequent hearing restoration is observed in reptiles and birds, so there is reason to believe that they can coax mammalian ears to do the same thing, but it may not be as generalizable a result across the human body. But damn will…

My baseless armchair speculative fear, with absolutely zero knowledge of this field or technology, is if some of the new hair cells could maybe somehow not fully "sync with" or complement the existing set and perhaps just make you hear "differently" but not necessarily better, and perhaps even worse in some contexts, depending on what % of your existing hair cells were healthy.

I have no clue if that has any remote basis in reality, though. And perhaps your brain would eventually learn to sort it all out, so maybe any increased sensory sensitivity would generally be a net plus either way, once enough time passes.

Re: Tinnitus Treatment from Neuromod

#115

Post by tbenst »

I’m a neuroscientist and just read their “phase 2b protocol” paper. As far as I can tell, there are no actual control groups. Registering a trial with clinicaltrials.gov is a nice step, but they don’t compare at all to patient improvements in people that don’t receive treatment let alone a sham. Thus, the study does not appear designed to prove efficacy even though they will surely claim it.

Re: Tinnitus Treatment from Neuromod

#116

Post by ldarby »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #99
modeless wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clean your ears yourself you need something like this: https://www.japantrendshop.com/coden-ear-scope-13000-standar... I thought it was ridiculous when I first saw it but I took a chance on it and it is actually a great product. You can clearly see everything and clean without damaging your ear. If you've ever had to go to the doctor to clear a blocked ear, you need one of these. With occasional use (~once/month)…

I immerse my head and ears in hot bath-tub. When I get out I put my little finger into the wet ear and then fast pull it out which creates some suction in the ear which sucks the water out and I think also some vax.

That's risking rupturing your ear drum.

Re: Tinnitus Treatment from Neuromod

#117

Post by devenblake »

ldarby wrote: post #116
galaxyLogic wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I immerse my head and ears in hot bath-tub. When I get out I put my little finger into the wet ear and then fast pull it out which creates some suction in the ear which sucks the water out and I think also some vax.

That's risking rupturing your ear drum.

Thank you very much for commenting this because I do the same thing and probably wouldn't have found out.

Re: Tinnitus Treatment from Neuromod

#118

Post by analyte123 »

tbenst wrote: post #115

I’m a neuroscientist and just read their “phase 2b protocol” paper. As far as I can tell, there are no actual control groups. Registering a trial with clinicaltrials.gov is a nice step, but they don’t compare at all to patient improvements in people that don’t receive treatment let alone a sham. Thus, the study does not appear designed to prove efficacy even though they will surely claim it.

The trial was divided into three groups. Group 1 got simultaneous tongue stimulation and audio tone and each tone was correlated to a separate electric lead on the device. Groups 2 and 3 had no association between the tones and which leads were activated (I think they were just random, or they used them all? Can't tell) Group 2 had a small delay between tone and stimulation, group 3 had a longer one (0.5s+) and also used a much narrower subset of tones. All 3 groups showed improvement and any differences were well within the error bands.

Definitely a sloppy design, changing so many variables between the groups. No active control (maybe vibration on the tongue or something). To me the conclusion is that the general method probably works, but almost everything the actual device is overkill, from the 32 different leads to the "proprietary algorithm" and you could do the same thing with just one lead and probably some random tone played over airpods.

Re: Tinnitus Treatment from Neuromod

#119

Post by dylan604 »

MauranKilom wrote: post #96
dylan604 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in a T-bone accident where another car hit me centered right in between the driver and passenger doors. My left ear now has tinnitus, and I too have a hard time hearing conversation in large groups of people. However, after the wreck, I visited hearing specialist several times. I always passed their tests of the faint frequencies. They cannot explain where the ringing originates.?!?! It's one of those things it…

Just because it's not been mentioned in the other comments thus far: Car crashes are loud. And it's worse if you don't see it coming (so that you could "prepare" your ears). See also https://bgr.com/2017/02/08/mercedes-pre-safe-sound-pink-nois... .

Yeah, totally blind sided by it, so I never saw it coming. Someone tried to pass me on the left while I was turning left with my turn signal on (it was still flashing after the fact according to the police report). It was a 2 lane FM road in a double solid line. I also had a side impact airbag that deployed, so no telling how loud that was as well. Thankful for it, as it prevented all of the shattered glass from flying into the car and my face.

Re: Tinnitus Treatment from Neuromod

#120

Post by ghastmaster »

svdr wrote: post #69
yablak wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TMJ can cause tinnitus; specifically there is a nerve connecting your jaw to the areas near your ear. Damage to this nerve, e.g., caused by years of unmitigated clenching/grinding at night or by an injury, can cause this. A neurologist may help suggest some tests. In the case of TMJ, there's a specific CT scan that will identify damaged cartilage below the ear that is typically linked to tinnitus.

I have mild tinnitus. When I move my jaw forward the sound intensives strongly, and then fades when my jaw relaxes. So there is definitely a connection for me.

This is not too unusual. For me if I jut my jaw forward, it temporarily increases the noise also.
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