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Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

manuel.darcemont.fr

111–120 of 396 posts

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#111
Anecdotally my experience is completely orthogonal to the author’s.

My side-projects gave me the career I have today. They have gotten me jobs without interviews. Because of my side-projects, every job I have had in the past two decades has been without a formal interview or usual take home/coding/white boarding/hazing ritual. I have used a resume precisely twice in the past 15+ years, and one of those two times was because of the company we built and turned profitable was being acquihired.

Some of my side-projects have turned into products that generated real world value. Side projects let me explore new technologies that I don’t get to deal with at work.

I would say, because of my side-projects, that I have frequently drowned in opportunity in terms of offered work. I have gotten offered a “when can you start” job, without interview, in an unsolicited approach, on more than one occasion simply because someone was using one of my side-projects in their day-to-day work.

I recently did a few “test the waters” interviews with a couple of companies (FANGMAN being two of them), just to get some practice in, to see if I “still got it.” Only the FANGMAN companies required a resume before they would even talk to me. Apparently, I’ve still got it, but I realized those kinds of positions weren’t for me.

Having spoken to several people about “focusing on your job” many realise that they have a great job, but what they don’t have is a great and diversified career. They get pigeonholed in to a single role, whether that is marketing, or project management or even software development. When that career dries up, Flash programmer anyone? COBOL programmer? Then they have to reskill and hope someone gives them another chance. “I am an $X” where $X is how they identify themselves. I’ve always struggled to answer that question of “what is it you do?” Perhaps that is a failing on my part.

The majority of software development is code that is not customer facing, that is never seen outside of the business unit for which it was developed. For each and every job you will have through your career you will be told to take a number, stand in line, wait your turn, do as your told, learn to compromise and if we like you enough and you check all the boxes, we’ll let you know at our convenience. In the words of Casey Neistat, “this… is terrible advice.”

My last job was without anything more than a 20 minute chat and “here’s what I’ve been building these past few months as a side-project.” My job before that was “we really liked what you did on Project $X for Company $Y, do you have any experience in Technology $Z?” (Yes, here’s a side-project you can look at that uses Technology $Z). Every single job, for 20+ years, “here’s something I did on a side-project that’s really neat and interesting, do you want me to do that neat and interesting thing for your company?”

I have studiously avoided any and every company that has tried to pigeon hole me, or get me to jump through the hoops of their hiring process, so far it has worked out pretty well for me. I don’t think I have ever worked a single day in my entire life.

Not everybody can do this, not everybody wants to do this, but it has worked out pretty well for me.

If I had to give advice to my younger self, if my younger self would actually listen to the advice, I would say “Do more of the picking one project in any given year, and hyper focus on that for 12 months, rather than only doing things for a few months. If you need to figure out which project that is, do three or four for a couple of weeks, then abandon the ones that don’t have enough interesting problems.” I do focus on single projects for extended periods of time, and it is those projects that have built my career.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG7dSXcfVqE

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#114
I've always had a side project (I enjoy it) but I understand the author's sentiment. When it comes to financial matters, working on a side project doesn't make any sense. Unless you're connected to big VC money or have a good business network, your side project has 0% chance of success no matter what you do. No matter how much better than the competition it is. On the other hand, corporations or hotshot startups are connected to big VC money so they have a very good chance of success and most of the founders of these companies don't fully realize how lucky they are and so it's easy to get a sweet deal from them... You can get a lot more money for a fraction of the work. You don't need to add any value, just support the status quo (which requires almost no effort).

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#115

Advice to my young self: put MORE effort into one of your 100 side projects, and stop messing around with other stuff.

Where did you get 100 ideas worthy of implementation? My imagination is so terrible, I can only imagine stupid ideas like Reddit clones.

Hmm. What has worked for me is to solve problems I encounter. For instance, I was at a friend's house a couple of months ago and some walkers in the neighborhood shouted that a pipe was burst, and we should report it to the utility company. We called the utility company, and it was difficult to tell them the location of the burst pipe. From there an idea was born, what if we had an app that can report the gps location to the utility company.

The hard part for me is to find the time to implement an idea. An idea for me just naturally flows from a problem.

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#116

Advice to my young self: put MORE effort into one of your 100 side projects, and stop messing around with other stuff.

Where did you get 100 ideas worthy of implementation? My imagination is so terrible, I can only imagine stupid ideas like Reddit clones.

I personally get 1-2 ideas worth of implementation each day. I always get the idea while doing something and thinking "hey, it would be cool if...". Latest idea I had was when I was playing piano, then played in VR and realized it would be really cool to create a VR trainer/game/vizualizer for the piano to fully immers yourself in the music that you play. So, not only you can be told what to play but you could also shape the entire world/environment around you by what you play. So something like Tetris Effect VR but with you playing the piano instead of Tetris.

Whenever I get an idea, I quickly note the main pointes in a note-taking app and usually never return to it, as the secret of creating actual useful products is to spend the time to create them well. Ideas are worthless if they are not well implemented.

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#117
post #28

> First, most recruiters don’t care about your personal projects or how many meetups you went during the... Why are you trying to impress recruiters? I mean, the entire point of the post is wrong, but impressing recruiters is downright stupid. Let's be frank: recruiters are bottom-of-the-totem-pole, lowest-common-denominator, bottom-feeders. If you aren't trying to do your own thing (which, let's face it, is the most…

> Why are you trying to impress recruiters? I don't know whether this is a flippant answer... but to get a job so they can eat .

Everyone should just do “x very specific thing that happened to work for me”

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#118

Advice to my young self: put MORE effort into one of your 100 side projects, and stop messing around with other stuff.

If only you knew which one!

>If only you knew which one!

That one is actually pretty simple: pick the one that you have the most to learn from, because that's the whole point of doing a side project if you are trying to leverage it as something that would help your knowledge/career development (as opposed to doing a side project for some supplementary income, for example).

And yes, I am aware that there are many unknowns, and when you are trying to pick a project with the goal to learn the most, sometimes the projects where you think you already know 90% of the solution end up being the ones where you know the least and have more for you to learn than projects that had initially more unknowns. But without the ability to know the future, picking the one that has the most "stuff to learn" (according to your first assessment) at the initial discovery phase is imo the most optimal strategy. It is fine if you discover later that the other project had a bit more to learn than the one you picked, because the goal is to learn a lot averaged down over a long period of time.

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, the entire point of the post is wrong, but impressing recruiters is downright stupid. Let's be frank: recruiters are bottom-of-the-totem pole, lowest-common-denominator bottom-feeders. No matter how we feel, the process still goes through recruiters. In a company I used to work for, we built a way where we removed the company and uni name to remove biases from recruiters. Most recruiters flat out refused to…

> No matter how we feel, the process still goes through recruiters. That's right and they simply look for keywords on my various online profiles and send me the standard "I'm really impressed by your experience, I think you'll be a great fit" message, even though 50% of the time I'm clearly not a great fit. Why do they get this wrong? Because they are "are bottom-of-the-totem pole, lowest-common-denominator bottom-fe…

Is that a matter of competence, or a deliberate tradeoff regarding false positives and false negatives? Or are they just motivated to show high numbers?

Re: Advice to my young self: forget side projects and focus on your job

#120
I think the biggest advantage of side projects is for when an interviewer asks you an open-ended "tell me about a project you enjoyed working on".

As an applicant, I can speak in great detail about any of my side projects, discuss any design decisions, trade-offs and compromises I made. Personally this usually involves some interesting trade-offs made on personal projects to optimize for AWS bill, vs decisions I'd have made at any company where a $100 /mo bill wouldn't even register as a line item on a budget. It also is a great way to differentiate yourself if you're trying to make a move from eg an Enterprise Java B2B company to a consumer-facing SaaS startup using $NEW_TECH.

As a hiring manager, I can see the candidate isn't being challenged enough by their current job, or they had a curiosity they wanted to satisfy outside their regular hours. Either way it shows initiative and a hunger to learn, both of which are good signals. Usually when people are talking about these projects, they are passion projects and you get a good feeling if somebody actually likes programming, as well as hints towards what specifically they find interesting. Did they spend 10 minutes talking about progressive enhancement techniques and bundle sizes? Did they talk about user feedback? Or maybe they focused on CI/CD, auto-scaling, or API design choices? This to me is far more useful than "Worked on team X and performed assigned tasks Y, Z".

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