Privacy is the most important concept of our time • Hacker News Board

Re: Privacy is the most important concept of our time

#111

Post by offtop5 » Fri, Oct 02, 2020, 2:59 PM UTC

alexgmcm wrote: post #68

If you think privacy is the major concern of most people then no offence, but you've had a pretty privileged life. I doubt it's even the major concern of most people in Western countries due to unemployment, poverty, debt etc. let alone developing nations which have the real risk of actual famine and so on.

Weapons of Math destruction points out how a lack of privacy can hurt your job prospects. You post something stupid on Facebook , a future employer declines to hire you . An insurance company sees many of your friends are poor , your insurance rates may rise.

At this point I do my best to avoid social media , theirs a ton of potential downside for very little benefit.

Re: Privacy is the most important concept of our time

#112

Post by COVardsStayHome » Fri, Oct 02, 2020, 2:59 PM UTC

DSingularity wrote: post #78

Privacy is dead. Why do we think we have anything close to agency over our self when advertising and — in general — profiteering by trafficking in the private lives of individuals is the force that it is today?

So lets go all in. Publish ALL data about everyone in a nice and tidy database where we can go an stalk eachother. I want to see how much properties the president has - voila, quick search lets me find it out. I want to see what is Zuck browsing - find out after a few steps. I heard a loud party next door - log in and find out who was there. What conversation did Trump had with Putin - here is the recording.

Re: Privacy is the most important concept of our time

#113

Post by idrios » Fri, Oct 02, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

piokoch wrote: post #77

alexgmcm wrote: post #68

If you think privacy is the major concern of most people then no offence, but you've had a pretty privileged life. I doubt it's even the major concern of most people in Western countries due to unemployment, poverty, debt etc. let alone developing nations which have the real risk of actual famine and so on.

Same you can say about global warming. Is this immediate threat? This year? Next year? In 10 years? Violation of privacy might lead to the situation that someone will be unemployed forever because of something that he or she wrote 20 years ago on Facebook or employees managed to fetch data that a person was depressed, has many kids, etc. Massive abuse of privacy will lead sooner or later to some kind corporate versio…

I would argue that it's hurting those demographics right now. It's never been easier to do a background check, which if you've had a rocky past that you're trying to change, means it's never been harder to escape you're past self. This isn't limited to criminal records, but even just having pictures of yourself underage drinking from 10 years ago, or (publicly) saying stupid things that all of have said at some point in our lives, is enough to lock you out of jobs.

We're left in a situation where -- once again -- the educated and wealthy have an advantage over the poor and unfortunate by just knowing how to hide their mistakes.

Anyone who says privacy is a privileged person's issue is shortsighted

Re: Privacy is the most important concept of our time

#114

Post by f0ok » Fri, Oct 02, 2020, 3:02 PM UTC

1. Clean air most of the time. 2. Clean water available. 3. Enough food to thrive. 4. A safe place to properly rest and live. 5. A fair job that gives enough to save/invest money. 6. Having friends you can depend on. 7. Respect from authorities (health, equity, privacy, etc would come into this?)

Now imagine the many important concepts these points require to reach.

Re: Privacy is the most important concept of our time

#115

Post by flohofwoe » Fri, Oct 02, 2020, 3:03 PM UTC

alexgmcm wrote: post #68

If you think privacy is the major concern of most people then no offence, but you've had a pretty privileged life. I doubt it's even the major concern of most people in Western countries due to unemployment, poverty, debt etc. let alone developing nations which have the real risk of actual famine and so on.

Privacy was a major concern in former socialist countries like East Germany were the Stasi and hundreds-of-thousands of "Unofficial Collaborators" spied on millions of citizens. People were very alert in their everyday lives about who they could talk to about what topics (because talking about the wrong things to the wrong people could easily cost you your carreer or land you in jail).

I would hardly call life in the GDR 'privileged'.

It's easy to forget today and from a Western point of view that privacy is a basic human right, not a feature of your smartphone to protect from tracking ads.

Re: Privacy is the most important concept of our time

#116

Post by Dumblydorr » Fri, Oct 02, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #17

Dumblydorr wrote: post #15

Not destroying our planet with GHG and rendering it inhospitable for millions of species, including humanity, is more important than a couple generations' data being spied on.

Your comment is whataboutism and a false dichotomy. Both issues can be addressed simultaneously and independently. I mean it's laudable that you feel stronger about conservatism than privacy, but right now you seem under the impression that we can only pick one.

There is limited bandwidth of humanity here, there can only be one most important concept. The title argues it is privacy, which is questionable given the much longer term impacts of GHG and destruction of our biosphere.

Other comments have noted that companies spying upon us will lead to less climate action, which I do agree with given a dirth of privacy on a site like FB enables GOP misinformation paid for by fossil fuel interests.

Re: Privacy is the most important concept of our time

#117

Post by amitamb » Fri, Oct 02, 2020, 3:04 PM UTC

alexgmcm wrote: post #68

If you think privacy is the major concern of most people then no offence, but you've had a pretty privileged life. I doubt it's even the major concern of most people in Western countries due to unemployment, poverty, debt etc. let alone developing nations which have the real risk of actual famine and so on.

When cars were invented, producing them in large numbers, operating them efficiently and comfortably would have been a major concern while anyone talking about safety would be ridiculed. As it turned out engineering challenges were sorted out by economic incentives but car safety/pollution control had to be legislated.

In case of cars though wrong design choices in older cars could be phased out eventually but in case of online platforms the choices will remain there for more number of people in terms of market penetration given the explosion social networks are having in the last decade. Even if vast majority of people prioritize other things over privacy, vocal and knowledgeable minority need to raise the concerns of the choices unknowingly being made by less knowledgeable people.

Re: Privacy is the most important concept of our time

#118

Post by cesarosum » Fri, Oct 02, 2020, 3:05 PM UTC

alexgmcm wrote: post #68

If you think privacy is the major concern of most people then no offence, but you've had a pretty privileged life. I doubt it's even the major concern of most people in Western countries due to unemployment, poverty, debt etc. let alone developing nations which have the real risk of actual famine and so on.

Equating privacy and privilege is not helpful. It is true that the privileged in our society wield more capability to enact protect and enact change for themselves and others in society, and privacy may not be top of mind when ranked against more immediate concerns such as those you have listed, but that doesn't change the fact that privacy is a universal human right and essential to our dignity and the functioning of society. It is something to be valued and upheld for everyone, not dismissed as a concern for the privileged alone.

Re: Privacy is the most important concept of our time

#119

Post by GoblinSlayer » Fri, Oct 02, 2020, 3:08 PM UTC

dfischer wrote: post #4

Privacy and the concept of property blur in the digital. This is interesting when taking the philosophy of natural laws and what a nation like USA is built upon (ideas of natural laws including property, defending life, and so on) Encryption is the only way to have property in the digital universe, however the mechanics of property and cost are also entirely different. Once it exists it’s costless to reproduce in sai…

>And no encryption has ever gone unbroken with time.

AES somehow evaded it since 1998. Coincidentally it was selected in the first open competition.

Re: Privacy is the most important concept of our time

#120

Post by centimeter » Fri, Oct 02, 2020, 3:09 PM UTC

alexgmcm wrote: post #68

If you think privacy is the major concern of most people then no offence, but you've had a pretty privileged life. I doubt it's even the major concern of most people in Western countries due to unemployment, poverty, debt etc. let alone developing nations which have the real risk of actual famine and so on.

"If you care about , check your privilege" is one of the most obnoxious and counterproductive put-downs. You're allowed to care about things that affect you even if they aren't as relevant to the poorest people in the world.