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On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

w3c.studio24.net

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Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#111

Post by fevangelou »

3stripe wrote: post #36
fevangelou wrote: post #33

Not a WP fan (although I've built large scale sites professionally) but the arguments regarding the frontend are kinda BS. What does Gutenberg have to do with the entire frontend layout? Gutenberg can still be used just for the main content region, not surrounding blocks. Not really a "talented" team after all. Plus, UK dev companies tend to be biased towards Craft these days cause (guess why) it's also UK based. I a…

Just to correct one of your points: Craft was created by Pixel & Tonic who are a US company, not UK based.

Indeed, mea culpa.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#113

Post by fevangelou »

brylie wrote: post #35
fevangelou wrote: post #33

Not a WP fan (although I've built large scale sites professionally) but the arguments regarding the frontend are kinda BS. What does Gutenberg have to do with the entire frontend layout? Gutenberg can still be used just for the main content region, not surrounding blocks. Not really a "talented" team after all. Plus, UK dev companies tend to be biased towards Craft these days cause (guess why) it's also UK based. I a…

I started my web development career with Joomla, around 2008. At that time it seemed somewhat convoluted -- having arbitrary levels of hierarchy to define a basic content model and redundant concepts for extending core functionality (i.e. what WordPress calls plugins and Drupal calls modules). Has Joomla managed to simplify it's architecture in the past 12-or-so years? Also, open-source CMSs are lacking for non-propr…

Joomla has several d'n'd content builders nowadays.

As for the separation of types of extensions, that's actually a good thing for many practical reasons.

In the end, it depends on what you're building...

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#114

Post by gexla »

seanwilson wrote: post #79

Is there an open source CMS that people would recommended for use with a static website generator for large websites? Netlify CMS is interesting for example and I love how content changes are versioned in Git. I like static website generation but don't want to get locked into a proprietary CMS platform.

You can use Wordpress as a headless CMS.

> and I love how content changes are versioned in Git

Developers love themselves some Git, but that's probably not the best content workflow tool for people who will write copy which actually accomplishes the goals of the site (like making sales.) Why do developers in this thread act as if it's going to be developers writing the content?

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#115

Post by gexla »

vorpalhex wrote: post #17

Glad they realized the issues of Wordpress but a shame they went with proprietary nonsense with a faux license. A php based platform has a lot of negatives for scalability. Using a cms to generate static content is much more simple, scalable and cheaper. Keep it simple.

> A php based platform has a lot of negatives for scalability

This is an outdated view of how websites are developed today.

> Using a cms to generate static content is much more simple, scalable and cheaper.

If the market agreed with you, then this would be the dominant method for creating websites today. You aren't smarter than the market.

Maybe you aren't looking at the right variables which go into your calculation for "more simple, scalable and cheaper."

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#116

Post by dubcanada »

frereubu wrote: post #76

I'm technical director of an agency that builds websites solely in WordPress, and I can say with feeling that Gutenberg has (so far) been a disaster not just in terms of accessibility but in terms of clarity of the development process. It's been a moving target since day one, with us constantly scrambling to keep up with large changes in each release. We held off for a while, and have only built three sites with it,…

I'm obviously in my own bubble, but I don't understand people complaining about WordPress.

WordPress is by far the worst CMS you could possibly use, every other single CMS is better in every capacity.

Let's go through why

- Uses PHP 5 spaghetti code with a handful of garbage event listeners and output buffering

- Has no integration with composer at all

- Doesn't have any form of content types without plugins

- Has no cache, no theming engine, no multi-language, etc etc

- Beyond a media library it has literally no aspects of a "content management system"

It's built for a simple blogging platform and for that purpose Gutenberg is amazing.

Why do people continue to try and shove weirdly hacked on garbage plugins on top of basically a glorified blogging platform is beyond me.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#117

Post by mattweinberg »

Hey all: we build a ton of websites in Craft and I've presented technical topics at their yearly conferences before. Happy to answer any technical or other questions about Craft here or via email, if anyone is curious to learn more.

In my opinion it's a great CMS and a good choice for the W3C site. It's content author-friendly, is also very developer-friendly and supports modern development/SDLC processes. You'll be pleasantly surprised if your only PHP-based CMS experience is with other CMSes.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#118

Post by luckylion »

seanwilson wrote: post #106

When working with WordPress, can anyone recommend a trustworthy place to go for plugin recommendations? The problems I find with WordPress are: - WordPress core is missing a ton of stuff you'd expect to be there so you have to turn to plugins. - It's hard to assess the quality of plugins. They conflict with each other, kill page speed, they break as WordPress is upgraded, and there's tons of bad advice you have to na…

> You can get pretty far with just ACF, a contact form plugin, an optimisation plugin (how is page caching still not built into WordPress?), and coding small features into themes directly.

This. I work on large, high-traffic WP sites a lot, and we're essentially keeping a hand full of plugins and writing everything else ourselves. Lots of plugins are complicated because they want to enable ordinary users to customize their behavior, which you don't need if you have even basic php skills. And from a code quality point, I prefer our own over most plugins.

If anyone builds sites for clients and uses a lot of plugins, it's because they don't have anyone that can write code.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#119

Post by katzgrau »

dubcanada wrote: post #116
frereubu wrote: post #76

I'm technical director of an agency that builds websites solely in WordPress, and I can say with feeling that Gutenberg has (so far) been a disaster not just in terms of accessibility but in terms of clarity of the development process. It's been a moving target since day one, with us constantly scrambling to keep up with large changes in each release. We held off for a while, and have only built three sites with it,…

I'm obviously in my own bubble, but I don't understand people complaining about WordPress. WordPress is by far the worst CMS you could possibly use, every other single CMS is better in every capacity. Let's go through why - Uses PHP 5 spaghetti code with a handful of garbage event listeners and output buffering - Has no integration with composer at all - Doesn't have any form of content types without plugins - Has no…

Like PHP in general, it was easy to get started with and now there are tons of developers pushing it in the ecosystem. Now that so many people know it, it's self-perpetuating at this point.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#120

Post by lwhi »

mobilefriendly wrote: post #81
seanwilson wrote: post #79

Is there an open source CMS that people would recommended for use with a static website generator for large websites? Netlify CMS is interesting for example and I love how content changes are versioned in Git. I like static website generation but don't want to get locked into a proprietary CMS platform.

Drupal has modernized (its highly modular with OO PHP) and is an excellent enterprise CMS. It can be implemented as the headless backend: https://www.gatsbyjs.com/guides/drupal/

Currently using Drupal 8 with a decoupled Next.js frontend .. works very well. Seem less upgrade to Drupal 9. Advanced CMS editing tools, moderation tools, media management, componentised content modules, content library, all content exposed via JSON:API, multilingual by default .. built on Symfony.

To say it's more complex than WP is true .. but to completely discount it, is foolish.

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