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'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

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Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#111

Post by mbostleman »

jschwartzi wrote: post #102
sandworm101 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helicopters are tricky things. They move very quickly but from call to helicopter taking off can often be a long time. Even in the military/coast guard context, the process of authorizing a flight, turning a helicopter on, and actually getting the thing in the air can easily take 30+ minutes.

I was told once when doing a WFA practicum that if search and rescue were called it would take several hours before I could expect to see a helicopter or have a team at the trailhead. This is mostly because it's a volunteer organization and whoever is at the phone doing dispatch has to call people and get them to go from where they're at to the headquarters to get gear, and then from there to wherever they're needed.…

That probably depends on the team and the level of resources. I'm on my local SAR team and we can generally have the first hasty team at the trailhead in less than an hour assuming good coordinates and details on the situation. But I think wilderness SAR in general is assumed to be a long process of getting to the ambulance at the trailhead.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#112

Post by sandworm101 »

jschwartzi wrote: post #102
sandworm101 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helicopters are tricky things. They move very quickly but from call to helicopter taking off can often be a long time. Even in the military/coast guard context, the process of authorizing a flight, turning a helicopter on, and actually getting the thing in the air can easily take 30+ minutes.

I was told once when doing a WFA practicum that if search and rescue were called it would take several hours before I could expect to see a helicopter or have a team at the trailhead. This is mostly because it's a volunteer organization and whoever is at the phone doing dispatch has to call people and get them to go from where they're at to the headquarters to get gear, and then from there to wherever they're needed.…

In the pacific northwest, helicopters are almost never used for searching. The are just too expensive/dangerous and often useless as they cannot see through fog/cloud/trees etc. Everyone heading into that backcountry should be prepared to spend a night or two in the woods. That doesn't mean hauling a tent but it does mean hauling some warm rain gear, a proper flashlight (not a cellphone) boots and some basic first aid training.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#113

Post by hindsightbias »

mbostleman wrote: post #104
phobosanomaly wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those wilderness medicine classes are awesome. Highly recommend keeping going for Wilderness First Responder. It's really, really fun.

For sure. I'm looking in to a WFR that can be done on nights and weekends instead of 2 weeks off work.

In Bay Area:

https://readysf.com/course/wilderness-first-responder/

My memory is that there are classes with two all-day weekends and evenings during week. But I can't find the detailed schedule. So ~10 days.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#114

Post by vb6sp6 »

arminiusreturns wrote: post #36

Can anecdotally confirm. Sometimes it quite annoys me that those personality traits are so embedded in myself though, because it seems to constantly be a headbutting of cultures that so many Americans on the coastal big cities just don't get or approve of, and love to condescendingly talk about that kind of personality as lesser or barbarous in some way. I love the mountains and freedom they offered me, the lessons t…

> Sometimes it quite annoys me that those personality traits are so embedded in myself though, because it seems to constantly be a headbutting of cultures that so many Americans on the coastal big cities just don't get or approve of, and love to condescendingly talk about that kind of personality as lesser or barbarous in some way.

"rugged individualists" always seem to care a lot about how they are viewed by "coastal elites". We'd all be a lot happier if we cared less about how we are viewed by others.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#115

Post by [deleted] »

sandworm101 wrote: post #105
phobosanomaly wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, part of that is that even when an ambulance gets there, what happens next? The nearest hospital in rural areas is guaranteed to not be even a level II trauma center. So it takes 30 minutes for an ambulance to get on-scene, then maybe it's an hour drive to a trauma center (optimistic), or they're going to need to get a helicopter, which can easily be another 40 minutes of waiting. That urban EMS crew might be shoo…

That depends on the nature of the ambulance service. In the US/Canada, ambulances cover basic stabilization and transport the nearest trauma center. We in NA have a culture whereby minimally-equipped ambulances are tasked to deliver patients to hospitals asap. That approach isn't universal, nor is it necessarily the best. In France, some ambulances bring docs with them to do things beside the road that in the US woul…

[deleted]

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#116

Post by kilroy123 »

2Xheadpalm wrote: post #83
phobosanomaly wrote: post #51

In many parts of the United States when you call 911, you're lucky if anyone shows up within an hour. It's a couple hours to get to a Wal-Mart or a store. It's difficult to get anyone to drive 40 minutes outside the nearest town and navigate unmarked dirt roads to do basic plumbing or home repairs. As a result, people have to learn to repair things, make things, use a gun, do first aid, lay shingles, hang drywall, po…

Although the story and your account are United States centric, I live pretty remote British Columbia, Canada and the same mentality, personalty types exists here as well. As the crow flies, I am less then 300KM to downtown Vancouver yet a trip to the closest town center for supplies is a 10 hour round trip in the truck and that is on a good day. I do not leave the house without chainsaw, firearm and various other sun…

How do you use the internet? Do you have a phone signal?

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#117

Post by sandworm101 »

phobosanomaly wrote: post #68
sandworm101 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Alberta is still in its early stages of development WTF? Early stages? The highways have been paved. The electrical lines have been run. Modern military bases. Highspeed internet. Cellphone coverage. Universal healthcare. Universities. Alberta is well past the "early stages" of development.

I guess you could look at it in a relative sense. Compared to Beijing, it could be argued that Los Angeles is in the early stages of development.

"Early" suggests a timeline, a progression from one state to another. Most people in alberta would probably take offense to the suggestion they are somehow 'behind' Beijing. They in many ways see their economic and societal development as far 'ahead' of Beijing.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#118

Post by jariel »

The one thing that stands out is 'lower conscientiousness'. I would have thought being on the frontier, the #1 thing you needed was that. Very strict discipline, responsibility etc. - it could be this is more of a 'farmer trait' and less so a 'mountain' trait.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#119

Post by cjones26 »

kilroy123 wrote: post #116
2Xheadpalm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although the story and your account are United States centric, I live pretty remote British Columbia, Canada and the same mentality, personalty types exists here as well. As the crow flies, I am less then 300KM to downtown Vancouver yet a trip to the closest town center for supplies is a 10 hour round trip in the truck and that is on a good day. I do not leave the house without chainsaw, firearm and various other sun…

How do you use the internet? Do you have a phone signal?

I was wondering the same thing.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#120

Post by sandworm101 »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #70
briga wrote: post #8

The early settlers of North American were in some sense selected by personality. It must have taken a certain sort of risk-taking personality to give up everything and climb aboard a crowded rickety passenger ship for a month-long journey to a vast and mostly uninhabited land. The people who arrived in America and decided to take it one step further by moving away from the crowded cities of the east into the vast and…

the vast and dangerous interior of the continent Sounds romantic but is it the truth? I understand that immigration was spearheaded by entrepreneurs who published guides to the new land and advertised in the homeland. You can see some of the spirit in foreign graduate students - they follow recommendations and usually have a very good idea what they are getting themselves into.

>> who published guides to the new land and advertised in the homeland.

Most of which were full of lies and criminal exaggerations. That's why "Springfield" is the most popular town name in the US. What else would a new farmer want more than a field with its own water supply?

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