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Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

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Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#111

Post by WalterGR »

throwaway815190 wrote: post #108
dekhn wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really struggling to see where you're coming from here. You made a claim about what the CDC "admitted" (which is technically correct in the sense that they said it, but it wasn't some sort of "admission"), but misinterpreted it. I called you out on that, and you accused me of accusing you of being a white supremacist. Obviously I did nothing of the sort. I'm just curious why you're pushing the narrative you are.

You're a liar. I didn't misrepresent anything nor did I say you accused me of being a white supremacist. > I'm just curious why you're pushing the narrative you are. No, you're not. I'm not pushing a narrative. I'm saying the simple truth. I don't care if you like that truth or not. The only reason I'm still commenting is to make it clear to you that I won't be silent or stop speaking the truth just because you lie a…

Paging dang...

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#112

Post by swiley »

perpetualpatzer wrote: post #78
logicchains wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why rights can be broken down into two kinds: positive rights (which entail an obligation on somebody else's part to do something) and negative rights (which only entail an obligation on somebody else's part not to do something to you): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights . The nice thing about negative rights is they generally don't conflict, and freedom from unwanted medical treatment…

If I understand the distinction correctly, my freedom of religion example is a conflict between two negative rights (the prohibition on preventing a religious practitioner's worship versus the prohibition on taking the unwilling virgin's life). Extended to unwanted medical treatment... imagine Joe CRISPR'ed himself a gene that improved his eyesight, but also caused him to emit bromine gas that kills 90% of people who…

> emit bromine gas

Wouldn’t that require some kind of nuclear reaction/alchemy? I don’t think anything humans are normally exposed to contains bromine.

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#113

Post by throwaway815190 »

WalterGR wrote: post #111
throwaway815190 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a liar. I didn't misrepresent anything nor did I say you accused me of being a white supremacist. > I'm just curious why you're pushing the narrative you are. No, you're not. I'm not pushing a narrative. I'm saying the simple truth. I don't care if you like that truth or not. The only reason I'm still commenting is to make it clear to you that I won't be silent or stop speaking the truth just because you lie a…

Paging dang...

I've done nothing wrong.

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#114

Post by Fjolsvith »

aphextron wrote: post #32

I'm signing up for the Pfizer phase 3 trial today. I have every confidence in the world that the researchers involved know what they are doing and would never push something like this if it weren't safe. If I don't get the placebo (fingers crossed), I will be one of the first people in the world with an immunity against SARS-CoV-2. That's worth a slight risk in my opinion. I honestly don't think they can do this fast…

Actually, you would be one of first people to have an immunity to SARS-Cov-2 that hasn't already been infected by it.

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#115

Post by _-___________-_ »

wegs wrote: post #92
_-___________-_ wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you got a more compelling source than that? Because that disagrees not only with the common sense of seeing what is happening in front of us, but also with all the other evidence I've seen.

From your other comments in this thread, I assume the evidence you refer to is the President's twitter feed, rather than scientific journals?

I've never looked at that idiot's Twitter feed. How on earth did we get from debate about the effects of COVID-19 to US politics?

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#116

Post by jmeister »

waihtis wrote: post #39
aphextron wrote: post #32

I'm signing up for the Pfizer phase 3 trial today. I have every confidence in the world that the researchers involved know what they are doing and would never push something like this if it weren't safe. If I don't get the placebo (fingers crossed), I will be one of the first people in the world with an immunity against SARS-CoV-2. That's worth a slight risk in my opinion. I honestly don't think they can do this fast…

Good luck, but you should consider that this isn’t a ”researcher is good/bad” issue, this is a ”global pharma race for billions in profits” issue with all kinds of interference from management, finance, etc.

what’s wrong with profits?

As long as they lead to delivering to the public/govt. what is needed?

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#117

Post by waihtis »

jmeister wrote: post #116
waihtis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck, but you should consider that this isn’t a ”researcher is good/bad” issue, this is a ”global pharma race for billions in profits” issue with all kinds of interference from management, finance, etc.

what’s wrong with profits? As long as they lead to delivering to the public/govt. what is needed?

The argument is not against profits but rather there is a huge first-to-market benefit here, which might have an impact on usual quality and safety measures.

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#118

Post by wegs »

_-___________-_ wrote: post #115
wegs wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your other comments in this thread, I assume the evidence you refer to is the President's twitter feed, rather than scientific journals?

I've never looked at that idiot's Twitter feed. How on earth did we get from debate about the effects of COVID-19 to US politics?

Welps, let's look over the evidence. You say:

"Because that disagrees not only with the common sense of seeing what is happening in front of us, but also with all the other evidence I've seen"

This statement suggests you haven't looked at (m)any scientific articles. I've read dozens of scientific articles about long COVID. If you posted a reasonable rebuttal to some of these, it'd be one thing. But simply stating you've never seen any evidence? That's a statement about your own level of knowledge, not about COVID19.

Aside from that, I do look at "that idiot's Twitter feed" from time to time. Your comments mirror the things he posts downplaying COVID19. Perhaps you look at secondary sources based on his Twitter feed? Or the same sources he does? I'm not quite sure.

As an aside, I'd advise everyone to read "that idiot's Twitter feed," much as I advise everyone to read international news source, left-wing news sources, and right-wing ones. You don't need to agree with someone to read what they write.

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#119

Post by _-___________-_ »

wegs wrote: post #118
_-___________-_ wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never looked at that idiot's Twitter feed. How on earth did we get from debate about the effects of COVID-19 to US politics?

Welps, let's look over the evidence. You say: "Because that disagrees not only with the common sense of seeing what is happening in front of us, but also with all the other evidence I've seen" This statement suggests you haven't looked at (m)any scientific articles. I've read dozens of scientific articles about long COVID. If you posted a reasonable rebuttal to some of these, it'd be one thing. But simply stating you…

I find Twitter borderline unusable, and looking just now I can't find an RSS or similar way to receive his posts, so there's too much pain in following his Twitter feed for me. Alternative solutions would be welcomed.

The chronology of this subthread goes:

1) You claimed that COVID-19 is 10x more likely to kill an under-40-year-old than the flu. To me, having read many scientific papers (they are my primary source of information about the current pandemic), and also observing the world around me in several countries both in Asia and Europe (admittedly not the US), with a variety of approaches to the pandemic, including regular conversations with frontline medical staff due to my work, this appears to be a fantastical claim.

2) You provided an image of a graph as evidence, with only vague indication of the source data, making it virtually impossible to verify.

3) I asked for a more compelling source to back up what I perceive to be a fantastical claim.

4) You responded by pivoting to US politics (which I know very little about and don't consider particularly relevant to the topic at hand) and ignored my request for more evidence.

Edit: I have only just noticed that the poster of the graph and the you are not one and the same person. I apologise for making that assumption. While it was thus not a "pivot", I still think the US politics angle is ad hominem.

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#120

Post by _-___________-_ »

WalterGR wrote: post #110
henrikschroder wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is excess death due to influenza every year. The number of dead due to covid-19 is not some kind of crazy anomaly that's going to stick out in the statistics. In no-good zombie-apocalypse Sweden, the total deaths/capita for 2020 is probably going to be above the 5-year average, but below the 10-year average and below the death rate of 2012. Here's how the excess mortality of 2020 compares to the last 40 years o…

There is excess death due to influenza every year. Right. And the flu deaths will be on top of the COVID deaths. The number of dead due to covid-19 is not some kind of crazy anomaly that's going to stick out in the statistics. Yes it is. I don't know who @FrankfurtZack is beyond how he describes himself: "armchair virologist. hobbyvirologe, hobbystaatsepidemiologe". He has one post on Medium and that's it. Here are s…

"going back to 2017" is a very short window. The European excess mortality data I've seen does show COVID as a fairly significant spike in a 5-year context, but even just "zooming out" to 10 years makes it fairly insignificant.
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