UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips • Hacker News Board

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#111

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 9:00 PM UTC

zepearl wrote: post #86

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't go so far as saying they're "fundamentally unprofitable". They have a couple long-term options: the often-discussed one is autonomous driving (though it's becoming increasingly obvious this is many years out), but the less discussed one is vertical integration. It's not hard to imagine them choosing to pursue Amazon-style vertical integration where they own the "restaurants" themselves. I put "restaurants"…

> It's not hard to imagine them choosing to pursue Amazon-style vertical integration where they own the "restaurants" themselves. I always wondered something about those meals that are available on airplanes: in the past I liked quite a lot most of them (e.g. a small piece of meat/fish/other, some vegetables and/or rice, a slice of bread, a small dessert) => wouldn't it be quite profitable to have a similar delivery…

Switzerland is strange because restaurant food is so tremendously expensive there compared to the rest of the world. In most cities in America, for $5 you can get a half-decent meal that's quite a bit more palatable than airline food, and for $10 you can get something from (mostly immigrant-run) restaurants that's somewhat nutritious as well.

There are meal-delivery services here that are basically what you describe, but they usually deliver food weekly and they're kind of pricey. They're mainly targeting time-strapped single people who are trying to eat healthier and don't want to do all the mental work that goes into grocery shopping, meal prepping, cooking, etc.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#112

Post by bagacrap » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 9:03 PM UTC

artoonie wrote: post #19

bagacrap wrote: post #3

Hard to know what to make of this without seeing the full data. On 21% of trips, Uber undercounts the miles. What about the other 79%? Spot on, or is there over counting?

Most spot on (within 0.5 mi), some overpayments. Overpayments are much less frequent than underpayments, and regardless: when someone accepts a trip, who knows if they did it because they thought "that amount sounds fair" or thought "that amount given the distance shown sounds fair." The only fair thing for Uber to do here is to rectify all underpayments, and let the overpayments stand. Further: just because Uber cou…

I'm not sure how ubereats works for drivers, but based on what you just said, wouldn't the reverse hold true as well? If someone accepts an under-paying trip it must be because they thought the amount sounded fair.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#113

Post by DEADBEEFC0FFEE » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #96

Balgair wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to trivialize your experiences (toddlers are not easy), but for me, the list you give isn't all that much of a barrier. Yes, it is simpler to use the app, but not all that much more. Also, where I am, they take the credit card at the door, not over the phone. Most use a Square-style card reader attached to a work phone, even the mom-n-pop delivery, even now in the pandemic (they use gloves mostly).

Again, I am not saying it isn't doable to order the old fashioned way, but the newer system is CLEARLY easier and faster. There is simply no way you could order and be done with a call in order in 15 seconds. Your argument (that it is not much of a barrier to use the old way) can be made for so many of the quality of life improvements we have made over the course of human history. Not every advancement is an entire n…

Personally, I prefer to give my money directly to the food maker if possible. They are local and I want them to succeed. Admittedly I don't use these services often, but a couple of local places have mobile friendly webpage and I'm happy with the friction. I think over the food makers will simply gat decent platforms.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#114

Post by zepearl » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #111

zepearl wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not hard to imagine them choosing to pursue Amazon-style vertical integration where they own the "restaurants" themselves. I always wondered something about those meals that are available on airplanes: in the past I liked quite a lot most of them (e.g. a small piece of meat/fish/other, some vegetables and/or rice, a slice of bread, a small dessert) => wouldn't it be quite profitable to have a similar delivery…

Switzerland is strange because restaurant food is so tremendously expensive there compared to the rest of the world. In most cities in America, for $5 you can get a half-decent meal that's quite a bit more palatable than airline food, and for $10 you can get something from (mostly immigrant-run) restaurants that's somewhat nutritious as well. There are meal-delivery services here that are basically what you describe,…

Thanks for the reply - I agree & disagree with you.

On one hand you are absolutely correct stating that swiss restaurants are in general more expensive than anywhere (subjective - e.g. a 30$ small menu might be ok here, but we do have as well a higher income and going to the restaurant is not something that people do often), but on the other hand I did like airline food (which you basically describe as being "the worst" while for me was on par with one offered by restaurants), therefore we have a mismatch of our experiences.

(talking about restaurants, I must mention that Stockholm was for me a lot more expensive than Zurich)

Personally, I would have all kind of doubts about a $5 meal (in most parts of the world, if it's not something extremely simple).

> There are meal-delivery services here that are basically what you describe, but they usually deliver food weekly and they're kind of pricey. They're mainly targeting time-strapped single people who are trying to eat healthier and don't want to do all the mental work that goes into grocery shopping, meal prepping, cooking, etc.

I'm not currently aware of something like that in my area , but my profile is very similar (and I did try to cook different stuff, but the failure rate is quite high and the overall quality quite low). Still, I think that the concept that I described was a bit different than that?

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#115

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 9:38 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #82

iso1631 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason I could think of to use something like ubereats, deliveroo, justeat, etc would be if I wanted a non-pizza delivered while I was staying in a hotel in a strange city somewhere. If I'm at home I'll look at the menu of my favourite indian/chineese/whatever place, phone them up, and they deliver it as they have done for decades. I've spent two nights in a hotel since March, normally it's 70 a year. One ni…

I get so frustrated when people act like these food delivery services aren’t a WAY better user experience than the old version of having to call for delivery. So many times, I will be super busy with the kids, or work, or housework, and I will just pull up DoorDash with one hand (while the other is feeding a hangry 1 year old) and hit ‘reorder’ on one of my past meals. Literally 15 seconds and food is on the way. Com…

[deleted]

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#116

Post by kmonsen » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 9:39 PM UTC

nlosti wrote: post #28

dannyr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They're no worse than your run of the mill tech company" So media should stop reporting on possible bad actions by Uber? Excess coverage or not, the media exposed discrimination and harassments at Uber that led to the company changing for the better.

It is disproportionately against Uber especially on HN. I haven't seen an article here about child labour in hardware companies in forever, but I definitely don't see them daily like Uber seems to have.

It is because the numbers involved (and a little bit the blatant corrupt attitude by the former CEO). Uber by design was created to break laws and hustle (and had a lot of issues with sexual issues for example as well).

Seems like the current CEO is good, but the company gets the good and the bad from it's history. The good part is that they got a ton of money, like inconceivable amounts of money.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#117

Post by freejazz » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #59

zadkey wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest reason I would say that the drivers are not independent contractors is that they are not allowed to set their own rates. Uber's argument that they are not employees is based on the concept that they only a platform facilitating a connection between drivers people who need rides or in this case deliveries. But if the contractors are truly separate entities, then Uber by controlling the cost of the ride/del…

Wouldn't Uber's argument about this be that drivers do get to set their rates by the platform showing them and matching them with jobs that are at a rate they accept? Just because they can't put out a published $ figure on their desired per job rate, doesn't mean they're not setting their own rates that they accept?

That's certainly not what is meant by the use of the word 'set' here. They do not have the choice to select their rate. Uber sets the rate and drivers have the option to accept the ride or not.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#118

Post by talentedcoin » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #96

Balgair wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to trivialize your experiences (toddlers are not easy), but for me, the list you give isn't all that much of a barrier. Yes, it is simpler to use the app, but not all that much more. Also, where I am, they take the credit card at the door, not over the phone. Most use a Square-style card reader attached to a work phone, even the mom-n-pop delivery, even now in the pandemic (they use gloves mostly).

Again, I am not saying it isn't doable to order the old fashioned way, but the newer system is CLEARLY easier and faster. There is simply no way you could order and be done with a call in order in 15 seconds. Your argument (that it is not much of a barrier to use the old way) can be made for so many of the quality of life improvements we have made over the course of human history. Not every advancement is an entire n…

I don't think the backlash is against saving time FWIW (although I get you, time is precious especially with kids around!!). It's more something like -- is this an investment society would bother to make without loads of cheap VC money?

I view it as an unstable equilibrium -- something's gotta give sooner or later, these businesses are barely sustainable. Is the convenience ultimately worth it in the aggregate, if Uber needs to embrace tactics like these just to survive?

(I admit I have a bias here, I think the gig economy sucks.)

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#119

Post by cortesoft » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 10:18 PM UTC

talentedcoin wrote: post #118

cortesoft wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I am not saying it isn't doable to order the old fashioned way, but the newer system is CLEARLY easier and faster. There is simply no way you could order and be done with a call in order in 15 seconds. Your argument (that it is not much of a barrier to use the old way) can be made for so many of the quality of life improvements we have made over the course of human history. Not every advancement is an entire n…

I don't think the backlash is against saving time FWIW (although I get you, time is precious especially with kids around!!). It's more something like -- is this an investment society would bother to make without loads of cheap VC money? I view it as an unstable equilibrium -- something's gotta give sooner or later, these businesses are barely sustainable. Is the convenience ultimately worth it in the aggregate, if Ub…

I would happily pay more for the service to pay delivery drivers more. I tip a ridiculous amount on each order.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#120

Post by cortesoft » Mon, Aug 24, 2020, 10:21 PM UTC

pintxo wrote: post #110

cortesoft wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I am not saying it isn't doable to order the old fashioned way, but the newer system is CLEARLY easier and faster. There is simply no way you could order and be done with a call in order in 15 seconds. Your argument (that it is not much of a barrier to use the old way) can be made for so many of the quality of life improvements we have made over the course of human history. Not every advancement is an entire n…

My preferred Sushi place will recognize me by my phone number and take my order within seconds. Payment in cash at the door. There is no reason why the process could not be quick and hassle free, even using the phone.

Sure, but that is still not as convenient. I don’t carry cash very often, and with doordash/grub hub, they can leave the food at the door for no contact.

I can also try a ton of new restaurants without having to re-enter my details, and there is a consistent interface. In addition, I get some sort of guarantee that the place is legit... if I don’t get my food, I can get a refund.