How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France • Hacker News Board

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#111

Post by P-ala-din » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #58

ttwy2020 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an immigrant who has been living in France (Paris) for 7 years, I didn't personally experience any racism, on the contrary, my collegues, neighbours and strangers, all treat me respectfully as I would treat them. On the other hand, my wife, being a Hijabi, did experience it in subtle ways (if we can call it racism): sometimes not-so-friendly gazes from strangers, she can not go to the public swimpool because burki…

> (the reason was not always disclosed, but some recruiters did explicitly tell her that it was because of her Hijab). Which is different from the UK and other European countries from what I have been told. That's because the French culture does not work on the same basis as the UK and northern european countries. The french society strongly goes towards integration and not multiculturalism. It has a lot of deep cons…

The underlying assumption is if you wear a hijab, you're not integrated.

I honestly feel like this is just religious discrimation with extra steps.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#112

Post by lma21 » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #78

bouzouk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Paris for a very long time and having started a few businesses (current one: a challenger bank with 20+ employees), I don’t relate to anything you are saying. Yes there are high taxes, (not half of the salary, for a software engineer it is very often around 30%) but they basically cover a lot of employee services that you would need to pay extra for in the US (health coverage, retirement,...). Most startup…

Here's the taxes on French salaries for reference. - The company has 60k budget. - 25% goes to employer tax (charges patronales). 45k left. That's commonly called the gross salary (salaire brut). - 25% goes to employee tax (charges sociales). 34k left. Commonly called the net salary (salaire net) - Employee pays income tax at the end of the year. The rate is progressive and highly variable depending on personal situa…

Charges patronales and charges sociales are not really "taxes" given your understanding of taxation.

Charges patronales and charges sociales are well explained in every payslip, i.e. where that money goes and how the employee/employer benefit from them.

Also, every person's net income tax is also explained and you can see where it goes.

At the end of the day, when a French person loses their job (even if they're a non-essential worker in any industry), they go home not worrying about a single damn thing... it's good to have such security, no?

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#113

Post by lma21 » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 1:57 PM UTC

victor106 wrote: post #34

From what a few of my colleagues told me: France is very racist. Apparently this is true in most of Europe. Everything looks okay on the surface but they are deep racial undertones. They tell me that believe it or not America is the one of the least racist countries. It does not mean there’s no racism in America just that it’s lesser. It’s easy for immigrants to assimilate into society in America than most places in…

> It does not mean there’s no racism in America just that it’s lesser

Based on what are you comparing here?

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#114

Post by belzebalex » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

ohgodplsno wrote: post #103

belzebalex wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like you know more about the legal code than I do. Maybe am I wrong on the root causes. France's leadership in technology is still poor though: all the consumer hardware we use comes from Asia with software coming from the US (I'm sure you can find exceptions to that, and I'm genuinely curious about it), and that's a big problem. The only two french apps I use are the RATP's app and BlaBlaCar once every year. Y…

>Seems like you know more about the legal code than I do. Unfortunately, legal battles with employers tend to cause that :) > France's leadership in technology is still poor though This is the root cause. It's not that France is bad technology wise. It's not that France lacks entrepreneurs. It's not that there's rules and laws. We literally have some of the best engineers in the world. Ask SF companies how happy they…

Completely agree with all you said.

Although, I am friend with lots of people who are starting careers in politics, and they're all coming from Business School or Sciences Po. None of them knows about the fundamentals of nature and technology and I have no hope that they will be better than the current leaders we have :/

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#115

Post by lma21 » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 2:02 PM UTC

ttwy2020 wrote: post #108

smnrchrds wrote: post #102

French Talent Passport has streams for employees as well as founders. Does anyone know what happens if you use the employee stream and then lose your job, e.g. because the company who hired you has gone under? Do you have to leave France immediately, or is there a grace period for you to find another job? Also, does France have similar to Permanent Residency in other countries? How long do you need to live in France…

I have the Talent Passport as an employee, and my first company went under. I was lucky to find another job before quitting, but generally, there is no obligation to "leave France immediately".

Also, if you've worked for at least 6 months in the past 2 years and your company went under / you got fired / the company did not renew your CDD (temporary contract) / you had to quit because your SO is moving, you're given unemployment benefits (whether you're French or not) as well as help to get back to employment.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#116

Post by nicbou » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

maxmouchet wrote: post #69

We often hear stories on how hard it is to start a business in France. As a French, I'd like to hear how easy it is in other countries (UK, US?). For example, what are the costs, the amount of paperwork...

I have done it in Germany. I had to register my website as a business, and documented how to do it on that same website.

Honestly, it wasn't so hard, and I can honestly say that I made it a little easier. The hardest part was taxes, and the honest solution is "hire a tax advisor, pay 300€ a year, be done with it".

The biggest problem for me is the cost of health insurance. As a self-employed person, you pay double. I pay 850€ a month in health insurance, and 550€ a month in rent. The fix is to switch to private health insurance, but that has its own caveats.

Here's an overview of what must be done: https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/start-a-business-in-german...

https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/become-a-freelancer-in-ger...

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#117

Post by smnrchrds » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

ttwy2020 wrote: post #108

smnrchrds wrote: post #102

French Talent Passport has streams for employees as well as founders. Does anyone know what happens if you use the employee stream and then lose your job, e.g. because the company who hired you has gone under? Do you have to leave France immediately, or is there a grace period for you to find another job? Also, does France have similar to Permanent Residency in other countries? How long do you need to live in France…

I have the Talent Passport as an employee, and my first company went under. I was lucky to find another job before quitting, but generally, there is no obligation to "leave France immediately".

Maybe not immediately, but I believe in the US if you lose your job and you are not a US citizen or Permanent Resident, you have 90 days to either get a new job and a visa to go with it or leave the country. How do these things work in France?

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#118

Post by yodsanklai » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 2:22 PM UTC

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

> The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd.

Whenever topics on France arise on HN, it's amusing to see many opinionated/politically biased comments from French people.

I personally have no idea on how France compare with other countries as far as startup creation go, but I'd take with a pinch of salt any comments making very strong claims.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#119

Post by non-entity » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 2:24 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #118

Uberphallus wrote: post #3

Honestly, this reads as those books titled "How to make money selling books on Amazon". Living in France, I can tell, France is very startup hostile. The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. The only way a small tech company can make any money and be sustainable (let alone grow) is having all employees as associates (with all the organization…

> The amount of taxes a company has to pay and the amount of paperwork to do (or money to delegate it) is just absurd. Whenever topics on France arise on HN, it's amusing to see many opinionated/politically biased comments from French people. I personally have no idea on how France compare with other countries as far as startup creation go, but I'd take with a pinch of salt any comments making very strong claims.

You're amused to see French people have strong opinions on their own nations' politics?

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#120

Post by balfirevic » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

ohgodplsno wrote: post #92

belzebalex wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airplanes? You're right. Rockets? Ariane is being eaten alive by SpaceX, and the bureaucrats won't move fast enough. They can't even agree on Ariane 6. AI: Yeah France's really good at supplying engineers for Facebook. There's a reason why François Chollet and Yann LeCun have fled away. Old companies in France don't build anything new. Maybe we do have startups, but do we have successful ones? Concerning your last po…

>Ariane is being eaten alive by SpaceX, and the bureaucrats won't move fast enough. They can't even agree on Ariane 6 Arianespace and SpaceX are not even playing in the same court. Ariane 6 is made for heavy payloads, SpaceX can barely lift medium weight satellites. Yann LeCun? He was literally already studying in Toronto in the 80s, he didn't flee France for Facebook. As for startups, yes, we do. Are they unicorns?…

> Arianespace and SpaceX are not even playing in the same court. Ariane 6 is made for heavy payloads, SpaceX can barely lift medium weight satellites.

Ariane 6, which isn't even flying yet, is projected to lift 10350 kg - 21650 kg to LEO, depending on the version [0].

Falcon Heavy can lift 63800 kg to LEO in expendable mode [1].

You were indeed correct that they are not playing in the same court.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_6

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy