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If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

software.rajivprab.com

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Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#111

Post by owenmarshall »

nostrademons wrote: post #86

So founders do treat some of their investors like this - look at every ICO, and a lot of dumb overseas money, and a good number of friends/family/fools rounds. And conversely, there are some employees that they treat with kid gloves, who basically get the investor treatment. Look at executive hires. The difference is basically two letters: "No". Most institutional investors have the ability and inclination to say no…

Knowing your BATNA is critical for negotiating anything, including employment.

One of the best ways to accomplish this is to avoid shopping for a job when you’re unhappy with the one you have; when your best alternative is “I keep working at the place I like with the people I’m on good terms with” it’s far easier to start from that no and let yourself be convinced.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#112

Post by mlboss »

bquinlan wrote: post #91
lkbm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Main reason: it's more fun. I could be a cog in a giant corporate machine, or I can have a measurable impact where I work. I can stay in my lane and do my specific job tasks, or I can run around putting out fires and helping wherever help is needed. I mindlessly build the specific design product handed me, or I can guide my own work in accordance to the needs of our customers and the business. I can follow policy and…

>I could be a cog in a giant corporate machine, or I can have a measurable impact where I work. I think that point can support working for either a big company or a small company depending on what type of impact you are looking for. I've worked for startups in the past and have had a huge impact on the startup but almost no impact on the outside world because the startups just weren't tackling very visible problems.…

Screensaver in chromecast is awesome!!!

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#113

Post by madamelic »

sharklazer wrote: post #104

> Founder: Sure. We’re looking for a $100,000 commitment, and in return, you would be getting 0.1% of the company. Founder: Sure. We’re looking for a $100,000 commitment, and in return, you would be getting 0.1% of the company on top of $100,000 in pay. FTFY

0.1% on top of $60,000 in pay.

Or if you are lucky to join later, 0.01% on top of $100,000.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#114

Post by arbot360 »

bquinlan wrote: post #91
lkbm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Main reason: it's more fun. I could be a cog in a giant corporate machine, or I can have a measurable impact where I work. I can stay in my lane and do my specific job tasks, or I can run around putting out fires and helping wherever help is needed. I mindlessly build the specific design product handed me, or I can guide my own work in accordance to the needs of our customers and the business. I can follow policy and…

>I could be a cog in a giant corporate machine, or I can have a measurable impact where I work. I think that point can support working for either a big company or a small company depending on what type of impact you are looking for. I've worked for startups in the past and have had a huge impact on the startup but almost no impact on the outside world because the startups just weren't tackling very visible problems.…

I love the screensaver for Chromecast, thanks for that.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#115

Post by ping_pong »

lkbm wrote: post #66
seibelj wrote: post #3

Valid reasons to work for a startup: - You are a cofounder. - You have little experience and you are using this to break into the industry, and get experience on many different technologies ("wear many hats"). - They are working on a very specific problem or using a specific technology that you strongly desire to work on and it's difficult to do it anywhere else. - You want to work a certain way (remote, on the beach…

Main reason: it's more fun. I could be a cog in a giant corporate machine, or I can have a measurable impact where I work. I can stay in my lane and do my specific job tasks, or I can run around putting out fires and helping wherever help is needed. I mindlessly build the specific design product handed me, or I can guide my own work in accordance to the needs of our customers and the business. I can follow policy and…

It's a lot of fun until the company gets acquired and you get $80k for your 4 years of hard work, and the founders get $50M.

Source: happened to me with a YC startup.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#116

Post by 9erdelta »

brogrammernot wrote: post #72
thinkingkong wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The invalid reasons are all accurate. The only challenge is (almost?) everyone has a friend or colleague that worked at Slack or Uber and made stupendous amounts of money; far in advance of what they would get at a FAANG. It doesn't take into account luck & risk, but this kind of casual relationship with successful startups colours peoples expectations in a different light.

How much money do you actually need though? I’ve worked for 5 startups now and my equity payout has been 0, 0, 0, 0, and now I stand I make low 7 figures from the equity on this last company (publicly traded now). During those startups the following happened: - I saw my nieces and nephews so little they forgot my name. They were young, sure, but it still stung when they look at you like a stranger - Messed up a 8+ ye…

Working ridiculous hours at a startup (I can barely remember anything from 2016) really drove home to me that time is way way way way way more valuable than money. Use it wisely (unfortunately wisdom is hard to get before the time has been wasted). Took a few years to get out of startups but I'm out (ish) now and I'm way more picky about how much time I'll work on something these days.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#117

Post by cmorgan31 »

brogrammernot wrote: post #72
thinkingkong wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The invalid reasons are all accurate. The only challenge is (almost?) everyone has a friend or colleague that worked at Slack or Uber and made stupendous amounts of money; far in advance of what they would get at a FAANG. It doesn't take into account luck & risk, but this kind of casual relationship with successful startups colours peoples expectations in a different light.

How much money do you actually need though? I’ve worked for 5 startups now and my equity payout has been 0, 0, 0, 0, and now I stand I make low 7 figures from the equity on this last company (publicly traded now). During those startups the following happened: - I saw my nieces and nephews so little they forgot my name. They were young, sure, but it still stung when they look at you like a stranger - Messed up a 8+ ye…

Well we also don't open up about mistakes as often as successes. I'll share mine which is a mixture of both.

The article is basically a rehash of my experience in a start up as the first engineer for a technical founder. I spent the next 6 years growing the company, my skills, and my experiences. I was constantly provided more salary and stock options until I had so many options I could not reasonably exercise them without taking on massive risk. I had to consistently request the status of the option pool to even know what percentage I was granted. When I left the company I effectively had 3 months (Nov 2019 - Feb 2020) to make a decision. I'm personally glad I was conservative and did not exercise them given the outcome of COVID in the US.

I don't regret taking that job at all as it helped me become a very skilled technology professional despite not having a prestigious educational background. It opened new doors which would have otherwise been closed until I had an equal opportunity to prove myself at scale. I do regret the extra hours worked which led to burn out and health issues as well as not being more bullish on salary until later in my career.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#118

Post by ping_pong »

trimbo wrote: post #64
marcinzm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Making a lot of money in salary. Startups pay more in salary than non-tech non-finance companies do in total comp. Startups that are far enough along (pre-IPO Uber, Lyft, etc.) pay more than FAANG (the RSUs aren't liquid but you need to only wait a year or two).

Uber employees who joined in 2015 actually saw their RSUs decrease in value by the time the lockup ended in 2019. 4 years of working at a pre-IPO unicorn for negative growth. Heard this from multiple people but here's an article: https://www.financialsamurai.com/how-uber-employees-failed-t...

Not 2015, but definitely 2016-2018.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#119

Post by quickthrower2 »

owenmarshall wrote: post #111
nostrademons wrote: post #86

So founders do treat some of their investors like this - look at every ICO, and a lot of dumb overseas money, and a good number of friends/family/fools rounds. And conversely, there are some employees that they treat with kid gloves, who basically get the investor treatment. Look at executive hires. The difference is basically two letters: "No". Most institutional investors have the ability and inclination to say no…

Knowing your BATNA is critical for negotiating anything, including employment. One of the best ways to accomplish this is to avoid shopping for a job when you’re unhappy with the one you have; when your best alternative is “I keep working at the place I like with the people I’m on good terms with” it’s far easier to start from that no and let yourself be convinced.

You can always bluff. I don’t think people do this enough! I mean a shit job is still a BATNA, and you simply don’t tell the next guy you hate the job. Which is as good as you loving your job and “just dipping my toe in the market” from a negotiation point of view.

Re: If founders treated their investors the same way they treated their employees

#120

Post by richardbrevig »

owenmarshall wrote: post #111
nostrademons wrote: post #86

So founders do treat some of their investors like this - look at every ICO, and a lot of dumb overseas money, and a good number of friends/family/fools rounds. And conversely, there are some employees that they treat with kid gloves, who basically get the investor treatment. Look at executive hires. The difference is basically two letters: "No". Most institutional investors have the ability and inclination to say no…

Knowing your BATNA is critical for negotiating anything, including employment. One of the best ways to accomplish this is to avoid shopping for a job when you’re unhappy with the one you have; when your best alternative is “I keep working at the place I like with the people I’m on good terms with” it’s far easier to start from that no and let yourself be convinced.

> BATNA

Best alternative to a negotiated agreement [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat...

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