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Jira Is a Microcosm of What’s Broken in Software Development

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Re: Jira Is a Microcosm of What’s Broken in Software Development

#111
post #3

I spend hours per day in Jira. Half as a PM, and the other half as an IC. I've never used Jira Classic, so can't comment there. But Jira Next Gen projects have been great to work with. So much functionality and bloat is stripped out of Next Gen, sometimes too much was removed I think. I hear people hating on Jira very often, but at least the way our company uses it, it's great. The only thing I'd really want to chang…

At my new job, the combination of Jira+Slack+Github is the most productive development support I've ever had. Of course, a company-level investment in process and a great PM and TPM help a lot :)

Re: Jira Is a Microcosm of What’s Broken in Software Development

#112
> The current software delivery process revolves around pushing decisions down to dev teams and forcing engineers to push status updates back up. This system ensures executives are the only ones who have context and can see the bigger picture while engineers do all of the work.

> This is backwards. It holds us back from building the best product and slows us down from delivering faster.

Thats engineering. If you don't like it then try to make a career move into management or product or start your own company (not advised).

I myself had to come to terms with reality and have been making the transition.

You got one life, no use complaining until the day you die. Move into management and make the changes. If you're ambitious enough, you should have learned all you need to learn from engineering after 6 years and can apply your knowledge in a more strategic role, running circles around non-technical PMs.

Re: Jira Is a Microcosm of What’s Broken in Software Development

#113
post #92

> This blog is not about how Jira is too complex and over-engineered with features I don’t need. This blogpost is a microcosm of engineer arrogance (it's also an ad for their product, so all of this is basically a strawman to drive sign-ups. Great content marketing, to bash on a tool people love to hate). The world is not all about engineers. Jira is a tool for whole companies, which have lots of other departments th…

> engineer arrogance

And this is the twilight-zone reality that software developers are forever stuck in:

Manager: "I need you to integrate the TPS reports with JIRA for a client"

Developer: "Ok, I can look into that"

Manager: "How long is that going to take? Put some story points on the JIRA task."

Developer: "Well, I've never done that before, so I'll have to do some research and I can't really say for sure-"

Manager: "I need you to say for sure. Knock it off with your engineer arrogance and suck it up and help your colleagues. I'm so sorry that I pulled you out of your 'deep flow' state but we're trying to reach our goals here"

Developer: (heavy sigh) "Well, a week maybe? If I can focus on just this and not all the other things I'm currently tasked with-"

Manager: "No, subtask it out to individual tasks of no more than four hours each. And you'll need to spend an hour every day in a status meeting so you can spend five minutes updating the status of your subtasks and listening to everybody else's unrelated statuses".

Re: Jira Is a Microcosm of What’s Broken in Software Development

#114

I recognize that this is a marketing blog, but it blames Jira for what are really culture problems and/or bad management practices. This is an emblematic quote: Take subtasks, for example. The invention of Jira subtasks is an affront to dev teams. Clearly someone who has never spoken to an engineer on a dev team created it. It’s the least dev-friendly way possible to get insight into what’s happening with a Jira stor…

Yes.

I've used Jira for years and never understood the hate.

The only times I have had real problems have been with particular idiosyncratic configurations or conventions that someone at my end has put in.

Re: Jira Is a Microcosm of What’s Broken in Software Development

#115

The JS-heavy web interface of Jira can be infuriatingly slow, so perhaps the frustrations start from there. Jira, the project management tool, can actually be great, if you configure it properly. The issue lifecycles, what fields are visible, how the board is showing things etc. can be designed to be as simple or as complex as you want it to be. In addition to that, the integration with Bitbucket and Confluence is al…

> if you configure it properly

This gets into the heart of what I consider to be the biggest issue with Jira, especially compared to nearly every other option, and was disappointed this article wasn't about: Jira is almost a poster child for the "inner-platform effect" [1]. Jira isn't so much an "issue tracker" as it is an "issue tracker development environment", with an ugly PM-focused configuration DSL GUI instead of a more useful to developers script language.

Presumably most of Jira's other technical faults derive from there. It's incredibly slow to use, which is about what you would expect of any program suffering from the inner-platform effect. It presumably has to check layers and layers of "configuration data" to do even the simplest tasks. It's easy to assume the databaase backing Jira isn't well normalized or index-optimized, because you can't build "configurable" normalization. (You might get away with profile-based dynamic indexes, but even then that will only get you so far, especially if your tables are key/value soup where traditional relational DBs fall down at indexing.)

Which gets back to the process failures that the article does talk about because it's easy to suffer from something like the inner-platform effect when your target audience (PMs) don't know what they want until they see it (if they ever figure it out), in part because of the impedance mismatch in the decisiondevelopment status flow between PMs and devs. So I would say the "inner-platform effect" is both a symptom, a cause, and an exacerbater of those process issues.

(Though I suppose it would be tough for an article directly pitching a Jira add-on to be too critical of Jira's underlying technical problems.)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner-platform_effect

Re: Jira Is a Microcosm of What’s Broken in Software Development

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means a spreadsheet for the purposes of tracking software project progress. Although honestly, if you have a spreadsheet that's longer-lived than a few hours, you should probably evaluate whether you're adopting the best approach.

If you are not a developer, spreadsheets are a tool that lets you get similar capability in many cases. It is basically no-code for accountants, portfolio managers, and non software engineers.

Cool. If you have a spreadsheet that's longer-lived than a few hours, you should probably evaluate whether you're adopting the best approach. You can replace a blown fuse with a penny, too, but you should probably call an electrician instead.

Re: Jira Is a Microcosm of What’s Broken in Software Development

#117
post #112

> The current software delivery process revolves around pushing decisions down to dev teams and forcing engineers to push status updates back up. This system ensures executives are the only ones who have context and can see the bigger picture while engineers do all of the work. > This is backwards. It holds us back from building the best product and slows us down from delivering faster. Thats engineering. If you don'…

> Thats engineering. ...

Engineering really doesn't have to be like that. I've worked for companies where the leaders took care to push context down, not decisions. When done right, results are very tangible, and (most) of the devs much happier. A few devs struggle and feel lost - probably the ones you want least on your team.

Re: Jira Is a Microcosm of What’s Broken in Software Development

#118
post #91

To paraphrase many of the comments here: Most of the problems that devs have with Jira are not problems with base Jira, but with the implementation and usage of Jira. Jira is perfectly fine, just like ALM is perfectly fine, TFS (Azure Devops?) is perfectly fine, Trello is perfectly fine, etc... The problems come from the implementation, and the implementation is reflective of the culture. Any work planning tool becom…

It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the bottom.

It is perfectly reasonable to blame the agent of chaos for the chaos that results.

Re: Jira Is a Microcosm of What’s Broken in Software Development

#119
post #14

"Though I think of Jira more like a spreadsheet. Very useful once upon a time. Outdated now. Static. Manual." This statement is so blatantly wrong that it actually put me off even reading the rest. Spreadsheets are stronger than they've ever been and are never going away, let alone being "outdated." Sure there are products that claim to be "the next spreadsheet" but most of those actually serve a different purpose: n…

I assumed the author really meant that using a spreadsheet for project tracking is outdated, static, and manual. Which I agree with. But spreadsheets in general of course are tremendously useful!

I've seen spreadsheets used for project tracking and in general I think they're versatile enough that they're useful tools. What's a better alternative? Jira and other proprietary solutions sound good in theory but I feel like in practice they're just expensive and time consuming since developers and managers need to learn a new tool that might not even have the features you're looking for.

Re: Jira Is a Microcosm of What’s Broken in Software Development

#120

I recognize that this is a marketing blog, but it blames Jira for what are really culture problems and/or bad management practices. This is an emblematic quote: Take subtasks, for example. The invention of Jira subtasks is an affront to dev teams. Clearly someone who has never spoken to an engineer on a dev team created it. It’s the least dev-friendly way possible to get insight into what’s happening with a Jira stor…

Yes. I've used Jira for years and never understood the hate. The only times I have had real problems have been with particular idiosyncratic configurations or conventions that someone at my end has put in.

Me either, its easy to search through and find 10+ year old tickets with comments and code reviews/TDDs to add context to old code.
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