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Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

theguardian.com

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Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloth masks do a better job at preventing you from spreading COVID than they do of preventing you from catching COVID. In small confined spaces I would not want to depend on 100% mask compliance by all people to keep me safe, and I’d want a N95.

In a large, unconfined space, I would also not want to rely just on masks. It's a public health issue. If I've reduced the odds of catching COVID19 by even, say, 30%, that's an incredible impact on how much COVID19 spreads, for the cost of a $5 mask and a minor inconvenience. The trick is to get R0 under 1, so we have exponential decline rather than exponential growth. Even if it's above 1, if we can bring the expone…

> If I've reduced the odds of catching COVID19 by even, say, 30%,

Given that the likelihood of catching it from a brief encounter with a random passer by is in fact quite small the idea that a mask could reduce the odds meaningfully in large unconfined spaces seems unlikely. We do not wear masks here in Norway but we do keep our distance (except for usual idiots at parties, etc.).

Recent clusters of infection here have all been traced to people who were in close contact with large numbers of people for hours (wedding parties, cruise ships, etc.). Then perhaps diligent use of masks might have helped but just not holding the party helps more.

> For the most part, easiest thing to do is to not go out in public.

This together with simple measures like making sure one washes ones hands seems to be what is working here.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#112
post #107
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, it's only advisory. True, but in additition to this advice, there is the Department of Foreign Affairs official travel advisory (the kind that every country issues, like "due to a civil war, we advice against all non-essential travel to country X") [1]. That advice is currently to avoid all non-essential travel to all countries, except the whitelist that is updated every two weeks. As of right now, t…

> For all the non-exempt countries, i.e. for most of the world, there is obligatory quarantine on your own dime. Unless your job allows you to work from home, that's a substantially larger financial penalty than the fine you suggest. Aaand.. quarantine based on trust in people is eventually going to be ineffective. "Traveling fine" was a minor point, the major point was forced, guarded quarantine upon entry. I mean,…

> quarantine based on trust in people is eventually going to be ineffective

In your country (wherever that is) perhaps, in the UK almost certainly.

In Norway it is certainly possible and in fact happened quite near the beginning of the epidemic here. Nonetheless I feel that it is on the whole less of a problem here; solidarity is still a live concept in Norway even though it has been somewhat eroded in recent years.

> You could and should be prosecuted by "smittevernsparagrafen" but that most likely won't happen even if you somehow DO get identified as the source of the infection.

People have already been prosecuted for breaking quarantine, see for example https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/QoblPV/oslo-40000-i-bo..., https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/0nA4BA/fikk-20000-i-bo...

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#113
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For all the non-exempt countries, i.e. for most of the world, there is obligatory quarantine on your own dime. Unless your job allows you to work from home, that's a substantially larger financial penalty than the fine you suggest. Aaand.. quarantine based on trust in people is eventually going to be ineffective. "Traveling fine" was a minor point, the major point was forced, guarded quarantine upon entry. I mean,…

> quarantine based on trust in people is eventually going to be ineffective In your country (wherever that is) perhaps, in the UK almost certainly. In Norway it is certainly possible and in fact happened quite near the beginning of the epidemic here. Nonetheless I feel that it is on the whole less of a problem here; solidarity is still a live concept in Norway even though it has been somewhat eroded in recent years.…

> People have already been prosecuted for breaking quarantine

Oh, good, that's somewhat reassuring to know.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#114

Thoughts: Aerosol covid risk is highly likely, meaning that air travel requires N95 masks and goggles (eyes are a known vector). If you are outdoors, dilution of virions happens quickly, especially in windy conditions. UV helps denature RNA quickly as well. Indoor risk can be greatly mitigated with room air purifiers, but they have not been deployed because the WHO hasn’t acted on aerosol risk. (albeit, the deploymen…

Please link the study showing eyes are a known vector. AFAIK we can't say one way or another. The only evidence I've seen is anecdotal from people catching it whilst using a mask. This would not be surprising if aerosol is a thing and even if not you must call into question mask quality, fit and whether the user is following necessary protocols.

Why would it not though, since there is a pathway between the eyes and the nasal cavity via the nasolacrimal duct?

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#115

This is one of the aspects I like about the covid. The centre of my city without the herds of foreign tourists and infrastructure load, the folding of the pretentious restaurants servicing them, the empty airports. My people exploring and having a holidays in their own country instead of visiting "greatest hits" in others. Everything is a lot calmer, there is space everywhere. The airbnb once more are converted to lo…

Different experience here. I live in a touristy town on the south west coast of France, I've never seen so many people. It's very crowded. Granted it's the peak of the peak season right now but I think there's at least 1.2x the affluence of other years.

AirBnBs and camp sites are packed. I've established a strategy to go grocery shopping based on the weekly rental patterns to lower exposure. Mask is mandatory in shops which is good and well respected.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#116
post #85
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a family member is dying, skip the event.

What a unempathic remark. I missed the funeral of my uncle several years ago due to circumstances and the hurt was very real.

That has happened for centuries earlier. Funereals are a great way to spread disease, and losing more relatives, friends and family to disease which could have been avoided isn't a good plan.

It does suck, but shit happens.

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