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The Art of Not Thinking

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Re: The Art of Not Thinking

#111

Post by bingobongo1 »

trilinearnz wrote: post #103
bingobongo1 wrote: post #92

>After years of feeling guilty about not wanting to do everything... Has the author asked themselves why they feel guilt about not wanting to do "everything"? Is it possible that the form of discipline being promoted here under the tag "Productivity" is entirely unnecessary for a satisfying human existence, and that it is primarily caused by cultural forces? Is it possible that such a focus on this relentless product…

I agree with this, and know people who have an unhealthy ambition for "doing productive things" with no time set aside for compensatory energy recovery through relaxation. I see these people fall into de-facto relaxation through exhaustion. They end up relaxing, but will feel guilt during it. This kind of audience would not benefit from productivity advice, as they are already operating on an extreme level. On the ot…

I agree and have been there in terms of looming depression preventing you from getting the basic human activities done, but I can't separate that depression from the spirit of my comment either. It was largely related to feeling trapped by our western work culture.

In terms of the basic activities of living, it can still help to address the aversion to the task head on by realizing the actual nature of the task.

The task isn't what it appears, but is in fact just a concept we impute to aggregate phenomena.

Is washing dishes standing at the sink? No. Is washing dishes the running water? No. Is washing dishes holding a single plate and sponge? No. Is washing dishes dispensing soap onto the sponge? No.

Washing dishes is the combination of several interdependent causes.

Tasks that we're averse to are simply aggregations of various other imputed concepts, and so the unified activity that triggers our sense of aversion isn't actually based on anything substantial.

Speaking personally, aversion arises for me a lot of the time as a sense of lost time to one activity or another, but the concept of 'just being' suggests that whatever activity you do is perfectly fine on a fundamental level.

No time is wasted because every activity you do is 'of one taste' essentially - it's all the same in terms of being aggregate phenomena wrapped up into a unified concept by humans that triggers aversion based on our individual conditioning.

So realizing that the aversion isn't real and substantial, reflect on the positive nature of completing the task and the positive effects it will have. Instead of repressing your negative thoughts (forcefully not thinking), see them as insubstantial.

Thanks for your reply :)

Re: The Art of Not Thinking

#112

Post by darkerside »

hinkley wrote: post #61
darkerside wrote: post #13

If you are in a similar boat, it's likely that when you consider an upcoming dreaded task, there is at least a small part of you that admits the possibility that you will not do the task . And because there is, and because your brain realizes it, it expends mental energy trying to convince you not to do it. Once you are actually doing the task, or it's done, or you realize that you must start doing it immediately, yo…

Some psychologists seem to be okay with the idea of self-bribery to get through difficult tasks. I think culturally some of us are taught that this is a form of weakness, but it just results in things not being done. I don't agree with a lot of Alcoholics Anonymous' philosophy, but the concept of 'white-knuckling' is quite a powerful metaphor for the trap we get into of trying to force ourselves through a difficult a…

My personal preference is to start with that, but quickly transition off the bribe. It was merely a crutch, albeit a helpful crutch, to get me started. But once I've proved I can do it without suffering, I know that I don't need those training wheels anymore, and in fact, in the future, they will hold me back, a meaningless ritual before the known work to be done.

Instead, find the next impossible task, and apply ice cream there.

Re: The Art of Not Thinking

#113

Post by darkerside »

ajkdhcb2 wrote: post #36
darkerside wrote: post #13

If you are in a similar boat, it's likely that when you consider an upcoming dreaded task, there is at least a small part of you that admits the possibility that you will not do the task . And because there is, and because your brain realizes it, it expends mental energy trying to convince you not to do it. Once you are actually doing the task, or it's done, or you realize that you must start doing it immediately, yo…

I think this is all abysmal, dangerous advice. The author says to 'become a robot' and you're saying to 'lie to yourself'. It's all very anti-Zen. I think Alan Watts would say it leads to double-binds and discordant psychological feedback loops that will cause you suffering. Your brain isn't a separate part of you. And you should simply be mindful and fully aware of life, do what you want and enjoy doing, when you fe…

When I say to lie, I'm a bit tongue in cheek. I don't really consider it a lie anymore. It's simply a acknowledgment that this task will not be painful the way that I think. It's much more Zen than my initial post made it sound, but I hoped that would help translate to people who are getting started with self discipline.

Re: The Art of Not Thinking

#115

Post by darkerside »

ajkdhcb2 wrote: post #48
dx87 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone is lucky enough to be able to spend their life doing what they enjoy, whenever they want. I'd bet that avoiding adversity at all costs is a bigger contributor to anxiety and depression because unless you live an incredibly privileged life, you'll eventually have to deal with things you don't want to.

If an action is going to minimise anxiety and depression in the long run, then it's what you want to do, so no mind-games and lying to yourself should be required.

If they are what's required to improve, then do them. Recognize when you no longer need the lies and move on.

Re: The Art of Not Thinking

#116

Post by darkerside »

mortenjorck wrote: post #30
darkerside wrote: post #13

If you are in a similar boat, it's likely that when you consider an upcoming dreaded task, there is at least a small part of you that admits the possibility that you will not do the task . And because there is, and because your brain realizes it, it expends mental energy trying to convince you not to do it. Once you are actually doing the task, or it's done, or you realize that you must start doing it immediately, yo…

> A trick I've learned is to lie to yourself. Say you're excited to do it, that you can't wait, and that you enjoy it. Your brain is easily convinced if you're willing to let it be. The technique I finally learned was to attempt to cultivate an enjoyment of the task I didn’t want to do. But I wonder if what you’re suggesting isn't really just a different way of looking at the same thing. You might be “lying to yourse…

100%. Posting my other post,

> When I say to lie, I'm a bit tongue in cheek. I don't really consider it a lie anymore. It's simply a acknowledgment that this task will not be painful the way that I think. It's much more Zen than my initial post made it sound, but I hoped that would help translate to people who are getting started with self discipline.

Re: The Art of Not Thinking

#117

Post by darkerside »

Jtsummers wrote: post #32
ak39 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fake it till you make it" meme?

It was used in a similar, but twisted, sense in the book. In the book, Mother Night , the character is working for the US (and the Allies) but under the cover of working for the Nazis. So it's a bit of a twist on "fake it til you make it". In the latter, you pretend to be what you want to be. In the book he's pretending to be what he doesn't want to be, but the consequence is that post-war he's perceived to have been…

And arguably, was.

Re: The Art of Not Thinking

#118

Post by guerrilla »

bradstewart wrote: post #46
emptyparadise wrote: post #14

It's very difficult for me to do anything like this because I end up forgetting things so much - good old ADHD, not something funny pills alone can solve. Creating a routine and sticking to it works best for me, but I've never been unable to stick with it through more turbulent times. Everything is fine until something, say, an unexpected family visit or a worldwide pandemic, disrupts my everyday life and routine and…

I feel you. Two things I've picked up that may be helpful: First, as a sibling comment said, having a notebook always on hand is a huge help to me (I like Field Notes as they fit in my pockets and hold up to abuse well). Writing things down with a pen avoids all of the possible distractions of picking up your phone, and frees you from any structure imposed by task apps. I write stuff down constantly--sometimes I writ…

> and slowly start building a new routine.

Something that helped me was instead of building a new routine, I went back to the old one but in stages. There are things I don't absolutely have to do, so they get tacked on the end and are optional so I can just skip them without much disruption in turbulence.

Re: The Art of Not Thinking

#119

Post by dasil003 »

knicholes wrote: post #93
ep103 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I laughed while reading your response, because I was reading your response while eating a small amount of ice cream, specifically because I was about to go back to purging my day's worth of incoming emails, a task I genuinely hate doing : D

I found myself doing the same, but I finally got so fed up with it I took action. I'm not sure about the content of your emails, but many of mine were from groups I was following that I had no interest in any longer, from code changes being made to repositories in which I no longer work, or just generic crap that I can't disable. When I get an email I don't care about, I take action to make sure I don't get any more.…

Over the years as my email volume increased I did a lot of fine tuning to my email process (stars, labels, read/unread management, etc). Once it surpassed a certain threshold (maybe 250 per day), I just cut out email management entirely. I don't archive, I rarely label, I just go through the latest, respond to anything pressing, and if there's anything that needs further followup it goes to my OmniFocus inbox where I prioritize all my work.

Email is critical to my work, but gardening it is not worth the opportunity cost.

Re: The Art of Not Thinking

#120

Post by chepaslaaa »

Tade0 wrote: post #22
bluntfang wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you won't find a physical hobby you enjoy because you never "just do it" enough to find out if you enjoy any of it. It's a bit of chicken and egg. People who think they have "emotional aversion to discomfort and disenjoyment of physical activity" should probably seek therapy if they really want to change.

I tried yoga, cycling, going to the gym - none stuck with me. I did try though. I only really enjoy swimming - but it's too much work to prepare yourself for the pool - and carrying things - the other day me and a few frineds helped my other friend move ten station wagons worth of stuff - but that isn't a particularly healthy activity.

go swim every other day you'll get more fun out of life
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