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Local-first software (2019)

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Re: Local-first software (2019)

#111

Post by robenkleene »

mkoubaa wrote: post #56

I think there's probably a market for a personal cloud, which probably sounds dumber than personal computer did in the 80s. What I mean by that is a computer somewhere in the garage, like a furnace, with enough compute and storage to drive all the devices and appliances in a house. In this model, devices do not have CPUs or memory, only input/output and a network chip. The way this would work is for the computer in t…

Along these lines, I’m astounded that the “selfhosted” subreddit has almost 90k subscribers (for comparison, “Microsoft” has 112k and “FigmaDesign” has 2.5k):

https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/

Interestingly, the solution to cloud software data ownership seems to be to use a self-hosted alternative, rather than use a non-Cloud solution like I would have expected.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#112

Post by harpratap »

oblib wrote: post #70
asiachick wrote: post #67

I'll take cloud first thanks. No software to update. Nothing to backup. I just open a computer/phone/tablet and access my stuff. I get the tradeoffs. I'm not going back 10+ years.

It's actually pretty easy to integrate the two. I've done that with the latest version of one of my apps.

How do you sync data between devices if you don't use cloud?

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#113

Post by robenkleene »

asiachick wrote: post #67

I'll take cloud first thanks. No software to update. Nothing to backup. I just open a computer/phone/tablet and access my stuff. I get the tradeoffs. I'm not going back 10+ years.

Out of curiosity, how do think about the prospect of being arbitrarily locked out of your account if you’re mainly using cloud-first software?

(E.g., you can find example horror stories here on Hacker News: https://www.google.com/search?q=locked+out+of+gsuite+site%3A...)

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#114

Post by pezezin »

iagovar wrote: post #25
ramraj07 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix is always the perfect example against this weird logic. They commited to AWS, and stuck with it even after Amazon itself is one of their prime competitors. They clearly decided that infra and devops is not their core competency and have absolved themselves of that responsibility and are ready to pay a premium for it. On the other side we have people who keep patting themselves in their back about their Emacs…

Just for being that guy: AFAIK Netflix has some caching devices that were pretty much home baked with FreeBSD and some other goodies. Can't remember the name, but I know they sit them in exchanges directly to ISPs. IIRC they were only using AWS for storing content with low frequency access.

They call it OpenConnect: https://openconnect.netflix.com

If I remember correctly, they use S3 to store and distribute the master files, and other AWS services for the user interface and the like, but streaming itself is handled from their own infrastructure.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#115

Post by CPUstring »

robenkleene wrote: post #113
asiachick wrote: post #67

I'll take cloud first thanks. No software to update. Nothing to backup. I just open a computer/phone/tablet and access my stuff. I get the tradeoffs. I'm not going back 10+ years.

Out of curiosity, how do think about the prospect of being arbitrarily locked out of your account if you’re mainly using cloud-first software? (E.g., you can find example horror stories here on Hacker News: https://www.google.com/search?q=locked+out+of+gsuite+site%3A... )

One of those stories is having a bad password memory. One is a person conducting business on his personal account and triggering flags. Another is a business messing up.

It's a good habit to keep multiple interlocking personal email accounts from multiple providers, but being cloud-first is still obviously correct.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#116

Post by codetrotter »

pvh wrote: post #45

Hello, we've published some more work in this space -- no HTML version yet, but here's a more recent paper on our PushPin project. https://martin.kleppmann.com/papers/pushpin-papoc20.pdf You can also try PushPin for yourself: https://github.com/automerge/pushpin/ likely outdated binaries are available here: https://automerge.github.io/pushpin/ Also, we're currently in the midst of a new project called Cambria, explor…

This Cambria project looks pretty interesting. Is it an internal project only? One of the blog posts gives an example of running it, but I couldn’t find any links to source nor binaries, so I am assuming it is currently internal only.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#117

Post by anilgulecha »

harpratap wrote: post #112
oblib wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually pretty easy to integrate the two. I've done that with the latest version of one of my apps.

How do you sync data between devices if you don't use cloud?

A lot research has been done in this. The OP article is on the same topic - offline-first and local-first stores exists: whether as DBs (pouch/couch) or as data structures (CRDTs or OTs) like yjs.

These automatically sync to the cloud. Usage is lower, as most commercial applications prefer cloud lockin.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#118

Post by sebastianz »

anilgulecha wrote: post #117
harpratap wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you sync data between devices if you don't use cloud?

A lot research has been done in this. The OP article is on the same topic - offline-first and local-first stores exists: whether as DBs (pouch/couch) or as data structures (CRDTs or OTs) like yjs. These automatically sync to the cloud. Usage is lower, as most commercial applications prefer cloud lockin.

>> How do you sync data between devices if you don't use cloud?

> [...] These automatically sync to the cloud. [...]

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#119

Post by robenkleene »

CPUstring wrote: post #115
robenkleene wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, how do think about the prospect of being arbitrarily locked out of your account if you’re mainly using cloud-first software? (E.g., you can find example horror stories here on Hacker News: https://www.google.com/search?q=locked+out+of+gsuite+site%3A... )

One of those stories is having a bad password memory. One is a person conducting business on his personal account and triggering flags. Another is a business messing up. It's a good habit to keep multiple interlocking personal email accounts from multiple providers, but being cloud-first is still obviously correct.

What does "multiple interlocking personal email accounts from multiple providers" mean?

Just to be clear, regarding the "being cloud-first is still obviously correct", your stance is that it's ok for your access to your life's work being at the discretion a company? (Presumably one you trust.) Not saying you're wrong here, just curious how people who are all-in on the cloud think about this.

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