Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

chron.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 165 posts

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#111

Post by sidewndr46 »

shuntress wrote: post #96
annoyingnoob wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are talking about would no longer be considered insurance. > the accounting profession formally recognizes in financial accounting standards, the premium cannot be so large that there is not a reasonable chance of a significant loss to the insurer The vast majority of automobiles do not hold their value, they depreciate over time. If I've had my car for say 5 years and I've paid the premiums for 5 years, I m…

I believe most insurance also covers the damage done by your vehicle to other property. So the upper limit on the total collected through premiums is somewhere between 0 and the cost of an expensive house.

It's actually more along the lines of whatever a person's life is worth. Also where I live the ~3 cars around me in traffic could each cost more than a nearby home. You can pretty easily destroy $400,000 of property here in an otherwise uneventful accident.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#112

Post by trustmeimdrunk »

drtillberg wrote: post #17

A central premise of this article is not correct. If an employer, for example, is using tens of thousands of background data points to deny employment to a person, the employer would need to disclose that to the applicant.[1]. If the things in this article are secret then the law may well be violated. Also, not really the best idea to apply secret proprietary algorithms to these kinds of decisions because you're even…

Ya large corps with the tools and resources are beholden to the most rigid of ethical standards and furthermore wholly unable to commit crimes systematically for very long due precisely because of their scale, amiriteamirite?! Yukyuk where my high fives at, guys? Yukyukyuk

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#113

Post by trustmeimdrunk »

gmantg wrote: post #33
vorpalhex wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't an HR person or hiring staffer immediately out the company or even sue them?

What do you mean? Why wouldn't an HR sue his own employer? Because binding arbitration and the employer will make sure to destroy the reputation of that HR.

We can answer that question by rephrasing, "why haven't HR employees sued their employers, time and time again?" then if it interests you personally pursue precedents.

Or better yet "Why dont employees commit career suicide for relatively minor offences that dont affect them personally and inflict no direct harm?"

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#114

Post by simonebrunozzi »

Eyght wrote: post #9

I feel like the Chinese style social score system won't have enough support in government for most countries, but we'll receive a decentralized version anyway through corporate overreach. Also, it's always amusing to arrive at an article about data collection and be greeted by this: https://i.imgur.com/d4Z4sdd.png

It would not be "decentralized". It will still be centralized, however the "master" will not be a government, but a private company.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#115

Post by t0mmyb0y »

hedora wrote: post #97

Huh. I bought a few nice bottles of whiskey and gin at BevMo recently, and they swiped my drivers license. Now I get ads for whiskey in the mail. I wonder how much that reduced my future employment prospects.

Why in the world would you allow them to swipe your id? Craziness.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#116

Post by t0mmyb0y »

xwdv wrote: post #42
jermier wrote: post #37

There are people out there resisting these efforts. For example, I know people who are against smartphones and use a so called 'dumbphone' or feature phone for their main number. If they need to buy groceries, they refuse to use a loyalty card, and always pay in cash. They typically have a secure and private laptop with something like Ubuntu on it, and use Firefox with all the anti-tracking features enabled, and uBlo…

Well then these people are fucked. Much like how using no credit means you have no credit history and a low credit score, you will have a very hard time trying to buy a house. If you spend your whole life being anonymous, be prepared to be treated as a high risk consumer who cannot participate in certain things, because of a low social score.

Very much describes me. I use cash for almost everything and have a credit score of 0 (zero)! I don't use or have a use for credit. 18 months ago the company I worked for had a background check done on me. When the results came in I smiled, knowing I had been doing the right thing. The results: this person barely exists. They went to school but there are no records of what happened, etc, etc, etc. It is how some of us live our lives, always have always will. I am over 50 y/o, born, raised, and still live in silicon valley.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#117

Post by awslattery »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #98
cactus2093 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The credit system in the US is already a pretty horrific version of this, and nobody really seems to care and it’s been like this for decades. And it’s not even just used for credit anymore, renting an apartment now usually requires a credit check. I had thought credit karma and similar services were at least adding transparency to the industry but was recently in for a rude awakening when trying to get preapproval f…

> You can check your credit report for free, as required by law, but nobody is required to tell you your credit score. You can also basically just pay to remove many things from your credit report. There is no “the credit score”. Any lender is free to use whatever scoring algorithm they like. And they do. Some lenders may choose to use certain scores for certain things, but underwriting has no obligation to use one s…

"Pay for delete" in collections reported has transitioned from a rarity, to most RMA agencies offering it directly in their initial letter and websites. None of the credit bureaus have pushed against this publicly in the last 3 years of it being more widely adopted.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#118

Post by syshum »

cactus2093 wrote: post #89
Eyght wrote: post #9

I feel like the Chinese style social score system won't have enough support in government for most countries, but we'll receive a decentralized version anyway through corporate overreach. Also, it's always amusing to arrive at an article about data collection and be greeted by this: https://i.imgur.com/d4Z4sdd.png

The credit system in the US is already a pretty horrific version of this, and nobody really seems to care and it’s been like this for decades. And it’s not even just used for credit anymore, renting an apartment now usually requires a credit check. I had thought credit karma and similar services were at least adding transparency to the industry but was recently in for a rude awakening when trying to get preapproval f…

>> And it’s not even just used for credit anymore, renting an apartment now usually requires a credit check.

Renting an apartment is credit, I am not sure why you view it has something other than credit?

The owner of the property is loaning (credit) the use of their property to you for X amount of time in exchange for N amount of dollars, payable over monthly installments

How is that not credit?

A better example is employers using it for hiring choices which does happen as well, but using an apartment as an example of bad uses of credit I think it misguided

>>. It turns out, the whole idea of a credit score is kind of a lie. Your credit report can be pulled by creditors, and creditors can interpret it in different ways as they see fit.

Yes the individual or organization that is loaning you a large amount of money can choose how they use the credit report they obtain for you. Again here I am not sure why this is a revelation or a bad thing.

There are also many different and competiting credit scores no person as "a credit score" there are at least 5 if not more credit scores out there and different institutions will use them in different ways. FICO being the most common but not the only

>You can check your credit report for free, as required by law, but nobody is required to tell you your credit score. You can also basically just pay to remove many things from your credit report.

Yea I believe these institutions should also have to release your personal score with your annual free report, Congress should fix that omission from the law.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#119

Post by syshum »

erikerikson wrote: post #107
harlanji wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a healthy homeless former professional working as a grocery bagger now, I can feel management watching me for signs of drug abuse to explain my ratty clothes and spotty hygeine. Nobody can guess why I’m not working a good job but seem very smart and thorough (slander from boss destroyed reputation). I’m glad to have a job and sorry to show up looking trashy, but it’s the best I can do right now. I am just thankful…

Glad you're doing what sounds to be healthier. I suspect many think differently here but I don't think the problem lies in the knowledge but in how people with power are currently using the knowledge. Restricting the knowledge is simply or current best mitigation of the current conventions. Another world might use that knowledge to better support you and others who have seen hard times and restore what sounds like a…

The biggest problem today be it credit scoring, Social media Censorship, or anything that is using these vast databases of personal info is the complete lack of transparency

Denied a loan, denied a job, kicked off a platform, in none of these situations is the company requires to justify their actions or be transparent in the policies and processes they used to reach that conclusion

This black box leaves people feeling powerless and out of control because they are.

One way to combat that is stronger data ownership laws, and the ability for people to get ALL information a company has collected about them.

So for example if you are denied a home loan, you should be able to request every single scrap of info that loan company collected about you (including any and all credit scores) they used to make that determination

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#120

Post by rayhendricks »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #69
icedistilled wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it's already standard practice (All states except CA) to use credit score in things like pricing your auto insurance. It's only a tiny leap to incorporate a similar magic number some company comes up with. Actually due to competition, if it correlates to risk, all companies will literally be forced to use the magic numbers or go into an adverse selection death spiral. Unless there is regulation against it, li…

I wonder at which point it becomes a self-fulfilling property - at which point decisions based on data-driven pigeonholing actually lock people on the paths "discovered" in the numbers? E.g. if a young adult gets classified as "disorderly, drunk, unsuitable for reproduction, suitable only for low-skill work" based on their history of college partying, and then consequently denied work and social opportunities (as eve…

Yes this pattern of data-driven decisions on our loves is troubling. However if we understand what these corporations are looking for it is easy to exploit them for fun and profit. If you get a decent credit score say hello to multiple $500 credit card opening balances, free plane tickets, free hotels.
Post reply on HN