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Remote First at Quora

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Re: Remote First at Quora

#111

Post by WWLink »

iagooar wrote: post #10

Working remotely has a very high cost, but it only gets visible in the long term. Working from home isolates you. There is no way around this. You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. For the company, people that work remote start drifting away from the company vision and spirit - you get an army of people working individually most of the time,…

> For the company, people that work remote start drifting away from the company vision and spirit

The company I work for produces some really cool products that I really enjoy making. Is that good enough?

> I have some friend who have been working at a company who went remote-first and after 5 years they do not feel identified with the company anymore. It's just a job. You could work for someone else and you wouldn't even notice.

I worked on satellites, and then rockets, and now I'm back to satellites. From an embedded software point of view, they can be made remarkably similar. I'm guessing most kinds of embedded software development feel similar lol. Of course, company culture matters - and by that, I mean how the team behaves, how the management behaves, and how the CEO runs the company. I worked for an idiot CEO once and the managers would yell at each other in meetings. I left quickly because it was a very toxic company.

> Also, working from home is only as convenient as your life situation allows it.

Almost every single company talking about going mostly remote is still having offices as an option for those who need it.

> You are a people's person and feel more energetic and productive when working with others face to face? Well, sorry, your team is mostly remote.

You lost me here. That sounds like an extrovert demanding that everyone bend to their will.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#112

Post by schwartzworld »

silveroriole wrote: post #77
iagooar wrote: post #10

Working remotely has a very high cost, but it only gets visible in the long term. Working from home isolates you. There is no way around this. You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. For the company, people that work remote start drifting away from the company vision and spirit - you get an army of people working individually most of the time,…

> I have some friend who have been working at a company who went remote-first and after 5 years they do not feel identified with the company anymore. It's just a job. You could work for someone else and you wouldn't even notice. I think feeling “identified with your company” is kind of pathological. If remote work gets more people to realise it’s just a job, it’s not their company, and they shouldn’t work themselves…

"Identified with the company" may be a poor choice of words, but I'd rather spend my time working for a company whose culture and goals align with my own, rather than feel like I'm doing tasks mechanical-turk style.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#113

Post by fogetti »

dang wrote: post #79
fogetti wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Personal attacks will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules in the future. You may not owe better to late-stage capitalism, but you do owe better to this community if you're posting to it.

I couldn't care less if you ban me or not. I will change account and keep posting.

Also there is nothing personal in that message. And this is not the first time that some displeased person flags my message just because he feels unsecure and have difficulty to properly interpret the text posted.

In some cases when I post the same message again, it gets a very positive reception.

The fact that messages are flagged and removed despite of the positive reception goes to show how fascist and indoctrinated this community is, and also how capricious you are and goes to show that the rules are up to interpretation so posting a link does not clarify anything.

In fact you are the one who is doing the personal attack in this case if you think about it. So maybe it's time that you live by the rules that you preach?

Re: Remote First at Quora

#114

Post by otoburb »

axegon_ wrote: post #27

I expected to hate WFH with a passion before the pandemic. The reality turned out to be very different from my expectations. I expected to be constantly distracted by the bookshelves, large living room and gym equipment but to my surprise my personal productivity went through the roof and I've never felt better, both physically and mentally. I genuinely fear the day I have to go back to the office(won't be this year…

Agree with almost all of your points as someone working remotely for 14 years. I would note the following:

>>Of course that isn't the case for everybody: people with families and especially little children seem to be struggling massively.

Some families with little children might be struggling massively not because of WFH, but because many schools mandated remote learning which is difficult for young children to sit through without peer and teacher interaction. The more cynical amongst us would posit that elementary school mostly serves a dual "daycare" purpose alongside the educational mission.

If anything, WFH might be a struggle but would be triply so if parents hadn't been given the option at all. Let's not conflate the WFH privilege (which implicitly assumes such people still have jobs) with the difficulties of providing a workable remote learning solution for young children.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#115

Post by jjav »

iagooar wrote: post #10

Working remotely has a very high cost, but it only gets visible in the long term. Working from home isolates you. There is no way around this. You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. For the company, people that work remote start drifting away from the company vision and spirit - you get an army of people working individually most of the time,…

> It's just a job.

It is in fact just a job. Can be enjoyable, but that's what it is. Losing sight of this can lead to being exploited.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#116

Post by sho_hn »

alistairSH wrote: post #67
iagooar wrote: post #10

Working remotely has a very high cost, but it only gets visible in the long term. Working from home isolates you. There is no way around this. You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. For the company, people that work remote start drifting away from the company vision and spirit - you get an army of people working individually most of the time,…

You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. Eh, I met my wife at a running club. My longest-term friends were made prior to work. My current friends are mostly from cycling and camping. I'm not social with any of my co-workers. they do not feel identified with the company anymore. It's just a job. I felt this way when I was at the office, and I fee…

> My job funds the rest of my life. That's it. Why should I get attached to a job?

Unrelated to the WFH vs. Office topic (WFH works for me, but I am an open source lifer and used to distributed community - and got amazing friendships out of it), but: This is a mindset I never understood or could relate to.

Doesn't it make you depressed that you need to spend 8+ hours of your life on something you don't really care about? It's time you don't get back, ever. For me the #1 req for a job is that I care and think it's worth doing, because it's part of my life.

I'm not attacking your values there, I'm just wondering how you can be OK with the time loss. I think it also reads on having a healthy relationship with the employer as an employee - do your best not to waste my time.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#117

Post by loco5niner »

iagooar wrote: post #10

Working remotely has a very high cost, but it only gets visible in the long term. Working from home isolates you. There is no way around this. You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. For the company, people that work remote start drifting away from the company vision and spirit - you get an army of people working individually most of the time,…

> Working from home isolates you. There is no way around this. You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office.

What about church, neighbors, walking in the park, family, etc?

I'm not going to to work to get more buddies, I'm there to make money (and make a difference, if possible).

Re: Remote First at Quora

#118

Post by Cookingboy »

silveroriole wrote: post #77
iagooar wrote: post #10

Working remotely has a very high cost, but it only gets visible in the long term. Working from home isolates you. There is no way around this. You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. For the company, people that work remote start drifting away from the company vision and spirit - you get an army of people working individually most of the time,…

> I have some friend who have been working at a company who went remote-first and after 5 years they do not feel identified with the company anymore. It's just a job. You could work for someone else and you wouldn't even notice. I think feeling “identified with your company” is kind of pathological. If remote work gets more people to realise it’s just a job, it’s not their company, and they shouldn’t work themselves…

A full time job is something you spend 40 hours a week at and your coworkers are human beings you spend a lot of time working together and very often you share similar goals.

You don't have to drink the Koolaid and all that, but if you can feel a sense of team and belonging from your job there is only positive effects, provided that you don't confuse that with blind loyalty.

At one point I've had 5 jobs in 7 years. But I still thoroughly enjoyed my time at those 5 companies and I made friends from all of them, many of whom I talk to until today. You would call me "pathological" but honestly I would absolutely hate to work anywhere with a bunch of people like you.

Just like a job isn't your whole life, but people also shouldn't be so vehemently against actually liking their job and their coworkers.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#119

Post by Cookingboy »

ipnon wrote: post #88
silveroriole wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have some friend who have been working at a company who went remote-first and after 5 years they do not feel identified with the company anymore. It's just a job. You could work for someone else and you wouldn't even notice. I think feeling “identified with your company” is kind of pathological. If remote work gets more people to realise it’s just a job, it’s not their company, and they shouldn’t work themselves…

This is a feature of remote work, not a bug. I cringe to put on the company themed shirt I am required to wear at the office on special occasions. The esprit de corps at my company is used to justify unpaid overtime and working on weekends. I would rather first identify with something else, like my family or local community.

It just sounds like you have a bad job, and yes, in that case it is a feature, not a bug. Because any system that lets you stay far away from a bad job is good.

But there plenty of people who actually love the place they work and the people they work with and do it with healthy work/life balance without the stupid company shirts. Hard to imagine for you, just like it's hard to me to imagine caring about my local community.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#120

Post by SenHeng »

sho_hn wrote: post #116
alistairSH wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. Eh, I met my wife at a running club. My longest-term friends were made prior to work. My current friends are mostly from cycling and camping. I'm not social with any of my co-workers. they do not feel identified with the company anymore. It's just a job. I felt this way when I was at the office, and I fee…

> My job funds the rest of my life. That's it. Why should I get attached to a job? Unrelated to the WFH vs. Office topic (WFH works for me, but I am an open source lifer and used to distributed community - and got amazing friendships out of it), but: This is a mindset I never understood or could relate to. Doesn't it make you depressed that you need to spend 8+ hours of your life on something you don't really care ab…

I'm a consultant/contractor and sometimes do remote. Even when I was an employee, I've never been able to identify with the company's mission and goals or whatever it is that thing is that everyone else experiences. In fact, I found it extremely cringey whenever I had to take part in any company sponsored socialisation events though I'm willing to concede that it's simply the introvert in me feeling that way. Despite that I'm still able to enjoy my job because my focus is on doing good work to the best of my abilities. I get along with my colleagues and have made real friends with some of them even.

I believe it's best for people to learn to separate their employer from their identity.

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