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Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#111

Post by rlpb »

Spivak wrote: post #3

Canonical's decision to abuse the power of apt packages to make it some "universal installer" is kinda gross. I get the thought but I would consider is surprising that, say, installing python-* actually installed pip and ran pip install. This is totally going to break Gnome Software's UI since it has plugins for snap, flatpack, apt, dnf, pacman, etc.. and making it so that Chromium from apt is doing a run-round with…

> Canonical's decision to abuse the power of apt packages to make it some "universal installer" is kinda gross.

This is a mischaracterization. "chromium-browser" is a transitional package that installs the chromium snap for one reason: it is to provide an upgrade path for users of Chromium in previous Ubuntu releases to the latest Ubuntu release without breaking Chromium.

I use an example of where Debian does the same thing: on the latest Debian release, install "mysql-server" and you'll get MariaDB, not MySQL. Granted this doesn't bridge across from a deb to a snap, but the mechanism is the same and the technical reasoning is the same. It is to stop users from ending up with a regression in available software following an upgrade.

There is no "to make it some "universal installer"" going on here.

You may not like the decision, but please do not make it out to be for reasons that do not exist - at least without providing the facts to allow readers to decide for themselves.

(I work for Canonical but don't work in an area related to the Chromium snap, Snap Store, this decision, etc. I speak for myself, and not Canonical).

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#112

Post by kd913 »

michaelmrose wrote: post #89
kd913 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no downside to Flatpak's support for multiple repositories and ability to self-host repositories. There are always tradeoffs. I would argue there are advantages for having a trusted party vetting my software repos. It's why I even use Ubuntu because I trust Canonical to make some sane decisions when vetting their repositories. You give multiple repository support and suddenly users have to one find a way to…

Can we not pretend that the single source nature is anything other than a money grab? It's pretty clear that all you have to do to ensure grandma doesn't add sources is make adding it require the cli.

You can watch the discussions from Popey, Martin Wimpress etc... It's pretty clear from their perspective that they built the tech from users/devs first approach.

Do you really think Canonical is looking for money over here? If so do please precisely explain in the short-term how exactly you think they are gonna achieve that.

Do you think they are suddenly going to be able to dominate the entire 100% Linux desktop software market and charge 30%? Do you think a company like Microsoft/Spotify/Jetbrains would just roll over with that? I don't imagine they can do that considering Red Hat/Suse market position. Nor do I see the total Linux Desktop applications being a blip at all on their revenue streams.

Last I checked, they are still providing infrastructure to the Linux community for free. They still have more market share then the rest of the Linux distros combined. That and without them, Linux Mint wouldn't be operating as they do now.

Frankly they don't deserve the hatred the FOSS community throws at them and you are being somewhat disingenuous by presenting them as such.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#113

Post by gjs278 »

pjfin123 wrote: post #84

If desktop Linux is ever going to be mainstream there needs to be an easy to use "app store" where users can use a GUI to install apps which need to be sandboxed like on a mobile phone with defined permissions. Snapcraft is way ahead of Flatpak on this and the current Ubuntu setup works well. On Ubuntu you can go to the Ubuntu software app (gui) search for software and it blends apt results with snap results. This re…

people used windows without an app store just fine. I don’t even use an app store on macs, I download straight from the publishers

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#114

Post by IshKebab »

curt15 wrote: post #36
psanford wrote: post #7

From the linked announcement: https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3906 > Applications in this store cannot be patched, or pinned. You can’t audit them, hold them, modify them or even point snap to a different store. You’ve as much empowerment with this as if you were using proprietary software, i.e. none. This is in effect similar to a commercial proprietary solution, but with two major differences: It runs as root, and it…

>You can’t audit them, hold them, modify them or even point snap to a different store. In particular, it's easy to inspect the sources for apt packages using "apt-get source". Snap seems to have no equivalent command.

Sure because Snap is designed to be able to distribute closed source applications. Part of the reason Snap and Flatpak exist is that distributing binaries on Linux is an enormous pain.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#116

Post by tomponline »

_jal wrote: post #62
ncr100 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you - :) Reading about the cons of Snap now - "auto-updates cannot be turned off" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_(package_manager)

Yep. One of many reasons they're banned in our shop. Even for client software it is bad - an app quitting out from under me because it wants to update is functionally equivalent to a crashing bug - but they're offering daemons this way, which is just insane. Who doesn't want all their containers randomly restarting because someone up the distro chain decided when your machine needed to upgrade? https://snapcraft.io/l…

The containers do not restart when the snap package is updated.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#117

Post by boring_twenties »

andrewshadura wrote: post #82
kd913 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the PPA. https://launchpad.net/%7Ewebupd8team/+archive/ubuntu/java For years it has been recommended as the mechanism for installing Java on Ubuntu installs.

Why would anyone use this instead of distro packages?

Distros (at least Debian and Ubuntu) don't package Oracle Java AFAIK.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#118

Post by kd913 »

andrewshadura wrote: post #82
kd913 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the PPA. https://launchpad.net/%7Ewebupd8team/+archive/ubuntu/java For years it has been recommended as the mechanism for installing Java on Ubuntu installs.

Why would anyone use this instead of distro packages?

Because SO/Google told them in 2012 to do it that way.

Suddenly the sysadmins in charge have forgotten they used this mechanism to install it on their ancient linux boxes.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#119

Post by maweki »

pjfin123 wrote: post #84

If desktop Linux is ever going to be mainstream there needs to be an easy to use "app store" where users can use a GUI to install apps which need to be sandboxed like on a mobile phone with defined permissions. Snapcraft is way ahead of Flatpak on this and the current Ubuntu setup works well. On Ubuntu you can go to the Ubuntu software app (gui) search for software and it blends apt results with snap results. This re…

You missed the point where Canonical brought their own apt-get that just installs the snap anyways. So no, you can't install stuff through your traditional package manager.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#120

Post by boring_twenties »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #73

It's interesting in that I quite like the idea of snap packages, just not their implementation. I recently purged snaps from my Ubuntu Mate machines after a few years of use because of the realization of only using two: 1. The micro terminal editor. 2. Chromium, because it was forced. Well, #1 was packaged for 20.04 so I didn't need it any longer. That left Chromium. For that single package, I had to tolerate my syst…

~/snap is really just wholly unacceptable, how did that even become a thing? Do the people who develop this software never use their own systems?
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