H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#111

Post by fredfoobar » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 3:00 AM UTC

anticonformist wrote: post #25

rpiguy wrote: post #12

The H-1B program is terrible and needs to be reformed. It is supposed to temporarily shore up the supply of critically skilled workers that are in demand. While it does this, when the program was envisioned no one imagined H-1B visa holders working here for 10+ years. If only there were a word for the importation of minority labor and locking them into employment with their sponsor, effectively reducing their negotia…

Reforming the H-1B to do what it was intended to do would mean eliminating 99% of the visas that are granted. It turns out that the entire H-1B program has been a massive scam. It was created and promoted by American Big Tech companies to make them money at the expense of American citizens. It's been a trillion dollar theft from lower and middle class Americans into the hands of the 1%. Without the H-1B in place, the…

I'm guessing the '99%' number is hyperbole, because that would roughly equal around 60K H1B active visa holders so far and it doesn't make sense at all.

Besides, most of the "legitimate" companies, pay good wages (this would be pretty much any company in the bay area). I'm not sure if you know this, but almost all H1Bs negotiate their offers in the valley (and in places like NYC/Chicago/Atlanta).

There's an additional overhead to the company hiring H1Bs as well, it's somewhat cost prohibitive in general.

Are you a software developer? Most people seem to underestimate the work software developers do, it's definitely not a simple "desk job".

That said, I've made my peace with this, if a majority of the people think that they don't want high skilled immigrants in the country (as opposed to say, low farm labor, which hires way more H-visas). I'm cool with it, I'm making my way to Canada anyway, and my current employer is ok with it.

The impression I get is that Americans don't want to do "dirty" jobs, like farm labor, clearly the latest Executive Order exempted them. Somehow, that it is morally acceptable to vie for the high paying jobs, while outsourcing the "dirty" jobs to immigrants.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#112

Post by russellbeattie » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 3:11 AM UTC

SamReidHughes wrote: post #106

russellbeattie wrote: post #26

The H-1B program definitely needs more regulation to prevent abuse by companies (especially when it comes to salary negotiations). But if anything we should increase the number - it's not like those people are just going to not work if they don't come to the U.S. They'll just work in different countries, either driving more offshoring of labor by American companies, or just competing with them directly. It's in the U…

I think most people that grew up in the Bay Area would prefer it if there was reduced traffic and lower rent that you'd get having had less high-skilled immigration. Then California wouldn't have such a large working class exodus. Santa Clara county is 38.07% immigrant. Without that immigrant population, working-class Californians would have more disposable income after rent, faster commutes, and more free time. The…

Literally everyone who lives in California came from somewhere else. Who gets to decide when the music stops forever, and everyone who found a seat gets to stay, and everyone else has to find somewhere else to live?

I've been here 25 years now... Do I count? My son grew up here, does he count even though he's my son? I'm sure the Native Americans or the Spanish after them would love to chat about your ideas on immigration. This state would be a pristine garden without all the northern European descendents mucking up the place.

How far back do we need to go? Talk about no commute and lots of free time! Get rid of all the immigrants and this place would be heaven. Sadly, all the people who consider themselves "local" would have to go as well.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#113

Post by dilyevsky » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 3:26 AM UTC

gok wrote: post #95

dilyevsky wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1b min salary is adjusted based on locale. Mountain View , CA was ~90k around 2011 if I recall correctly

TIL! Still think it should be higher.

It’s already calculated based on median income for the same job title in the area. What they should do is include all compensation (stock, bonus healthcare, food, etc) in the calculations. I doubt it’s been a significant depressing factor though...

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#114

Post by SamReidHughes » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 3:33 AM UTC

russellbeattie wrote: post #112

SamReidHughes wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people that grew up in the Bay Area would prefer it if there was reduced traffic and lower rent that you'd get having had less high-skilled immigration. Then California wouldn't have such a large working class exodus. Santa Clara county is 38.07% immigrant. Without that immigrant population, working-class Californians would have more disposable income after rent, faster commutes, and more free time. The…

Literally everyone who lives in California came from somewhere else. Who gets to decide when the music stops forever, and everyone who found a seat gets to stay, and everyone else has to find somewhere else to live? I've been here 25 years now... Do I count? My son grew up here, does he count even though he's my son? I'm sure the Native Americans or the Spanish after them would love to chat about your ideas on immigr…

In your first post, you were arguing that immigration improves the place. Now you're arguing that we should allow immigration even if it doesn't.

Huh.

If the population is really sparse, immigration really does improve the society -- it allows for specialization, with supermarkets, karate studios, and the like. Then, as the population gets more dense, the marginal benefit of population growth, assuming random average people, decreases. Eventually, it goes negative. At that point, you need to raise the bar -- e.g. only admit high quality immigrants, or family reunification (which benefits citizen family members). The higher the population, the higher the bar needs to get raised.

The problem with your analysis is that it doesn't take into account the total population number. Any advocacy for immigration that doesn't differentiate between a national population of 100 million, 350 million, and 900 million, if that advocacy argues that it benefits the country, is intrinsically defective,

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#115

Post by 29athrowaway » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 3:38 AM UTC

frostburg wrote: post #78

29athrowaway wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, in things that never happened...

I very much doubt that she's the only one. Apparently Melania Trump had one, too - I suspect that a good immigration lawyer can be very helpful in this sort of thing if some conceivable way to argue that you meet the requirements exists.

I don't doubt the fact that an EB-1 visa could be awarded with a person with that background. I doubt about their alleged personal relationship with an adult entertainer. That guess is based on the fact that adult entertainers worthy of an EB-1 visa are a tiny, tiny fraction of the general population.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#116

Post by arcticbull » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 4:06 AM UTC

monoideism wrote: post #61

arcticbull wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also make an O-1 type visa as an immigrant visa. That's unnecessary, as the O-1 has the same requirements as an EB1A green card petition. The immigrant visa form of the O-1 is simply an EB1A petition. It's actually possible to self-petition EB1A. Only India and China have a backlog of EB1A petitions, and their priority dates are ~2017. I'd love to read that study if you dig it up! For what it's worth, I believe in…

Interesting about EB1A, didn't know. I agree that we need reform in this area. For one, a bidding system for H1-B type visas could prevent much of the abuse. Like you, I'm not a Trump supporter, but I like the points-based system. Not sure why that got so much criticism (probably simply because it came from him). It's similar to Canada's system, which most people around the globe seem to admire. I hope people can und…

I guess one question I have re the first study you posted is: just because you get a certified LCA for level 1 or 2, does that mean the employer is going to actually pay what corresponds to a level 1 or level 2 wage? Isn't that the floor? LCA happens before I-129, so the employer is just certifying they need someone, anyone, to take the role.

For instance, a promotion or regular pay raise doesn't trigger a new LCA. That only happens when you change employers. As an employer, if it didn't affect the likelihood of an approved LCA (and the article does itself state that they're largely pro forma, and won't get denied unless there's an obvious error) why would the employer not pick the lowest class to maximize flexibility?

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#117

Post by jogjayr » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 4:18 AM UTC

ardit33 wrote: post #76

arcticbull wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If only there were a word for the importation of minority labor and locking them into employment with their sponsor, effectively reducing their negotiating power for salary to zero... It really doesn't do that. To be fair, H-1Bs are supposed to be in-demand specialty workers, to meet the spirit of the program. That means they have, by definition, negotiating power. I've spent a lot of time in H-1 status and I have…

This is so wrong, it is comical. You have a lot less leverage, especially if you want/are in the process of getting a green card. As a former H1B holder (and currently on a Green Card), being on a H-1B has prevented me: 1. Not accepting a higher salary offer, but going with a more 'safe option' 2. Having to negotiate for asap Green Card application, vs. salary 3. Not being able to accept a promotion to a manager, as…

Is it possible you were on the H-1B when transferring the visa between employers wasn't easy? It's gotten better in the past 10 years (and worse again in the past 4). I've switched jobs 4 times, gotten a nice raise every single time.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#118

Post by jogjayr » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 4:20 AM UTC

james305 wrote: post #89

moultano wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The H1B program is the only reason the US has a tech industry at all. 75% of silicon valley tech workers are immigrants.

This is a ridiculous statement. Intel, Facebook, Microsoft, Google, Apple were all founded by US Citizens.

Steve Jobs' biological father was an immigrant. So were Eduardo Saverin and Sergey Brin.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#119

Post by 29athrowaway » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 5:20 AM UTC

huy-nguyen wrote: post #99

29athrowaway wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H-1B1 is not the visa type for the best and brightest. That visa type is EB-1. H-1B is about skills in high demand not extraordinary ability. Many personal friends of mine are H-1B and they would not be even considered the best or brightest in their own household. Of course, you have to be somewhat smart to meet the basic requirements: bachelor's degree or equivalent. But that does not mean you are among the best .

The H1B is not directly comparable to EB-1. The former is a non-immigrant visa, is easier to qualify for (just need to have a bachelor's degree in a "specialty occupation") except for the lottery part and less costly to obtain (around $5-7k total in fees). The latter an immigrant visa, costs quite a bit more to obtain ($10-20k in total fees) and requires more regimented labor market testing process to prove there are…

I was replying specifically to the "best and brightest" comment.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#120

Post by frostburg » Tue, Jul 07, 2020, 6:11 AM UTC

29athrowaway wrote: post #115

frostburg wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much doubt that she's the only one. Apparently Melania Trump had one, too - I suspect that a good immigration lawyer can be very helpful in this sort of thing if some conceivable way to argue that you meet the requirements exists.

I don't doubt the fact that an EB-1 visa could be awarded with a person with that background. I doubt about their alleged personal relationship with an adult entertainer. That guess is based on the fact that adult entertainers worthy of an EB-1 visa are a tiny, tiny fraction of the general population.

Not going to dox myself to prove it, sorry (actually it would be provable by doing some sleuthing over my posting history here, but I'm not going to point out exactly how either).