H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC)

Post by p_l » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

clouddrover wrote: post #102

p_l wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation with AV1 is "we are in middle of minefield and nobody got mine-clearing gear". They can be reasonably sure they do not infringe known patents from certain Patent Pools and patents declared as part of MPEG-LA bundles. They can't provide reasonable data that they do not infringe on any submarine patent, something that killed 3 attempts by MPEG-LA to provide a royalty-free codec for the web - all that was…

> The situation with AV1 is "we are in middle of minefield and nobody got mine-clearing gear". That's true of every new video codec. It didn't stop the use of H.264 or VP9 or even HEVC. Multiple companies have now rolled out AV1 into production. We'll see what happens.

Post by pault » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #53

DrBazza wrote: post #9

Naively hoped I'd read 'this will be released to the community under a GPL license' or similar. Instead found the words 'patent' and 'transparent licensing model'. I appreciate that it costs money and time to develop these algorithms, but when you're backed by multi-billion dollar "partners from industry including Apple, Ericsson, Intel, Huawei, Microsoft, Qualcomm, and Sony" perhaps they could swallow the costs? It…

What you're looking for is the AV1 codec, which finalized a year and a half ago and will likely see much wider adoption, simply because none of the members want to pay royalties. https://aomedia.org/av1/ https://aomedia.org/membership/members/ AV1 decoding has already been in Chrome and Firefox since at least a year ago. We're just waiting for hardware decoding and encoding support now, which should start appearing t…

Post by p_l » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 2:39 PM UTC

cyphar wrote: post #106

p_l wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others mentioned, VP8, VP9 and AV1 all are patent encumbered - they just happen to have licenses that are royalty-free and as someone mentioned, include retaliation clauses which help fighting off submarine patents - but that's essentially a possibly high-stakes game of chicken.

While they are patent-encumbered in the strictest sense of the word, they are not as aggressively licensed as H.266 -- which is what GP was lamenting. Licensing H.266 under the GPL(v3) wouldn't erase the existence of the patents and it would still be "patent-encumbered" in the same sense that VP8/9 and AV1 are. And retaliation clauses are present in basically every free software license that has clauses dealing with…

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

cyphar wrote: post #45

p_l wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dirty secret of video codecs is that you can't make a modern video codec that isn't patent encumbered, which in turn makes it so that even if they wanted to be open, they go for defensive patents, which in turn perpetuate the situation. At least the patent licenses usually used with MPEG mean that private use of open source implementations is free.

> The dirty secret of video codecs is that you can't make a modern video codec that isn't patent encumbered The existence of Theora, VP8, VP9, and now AV1 seems to contradict that theory. You could argue that they infringe on some unknown patents, but that is also arguably true of patent cabals like MPEG (you just hope that the cabal is big enough that there aren't any patentholders lurking outside). The only differe…

Post by entropicdrifter » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #89

ajross wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one trusted numbers like this, and followed a chain of en vogue codecs back through history, you'd expect that a modern codec would produce files sizes like 3% of MPEG-2 on the same input data. It's all spin. I'm sure it does better, but I'm equally sure it'll turn out to be an incremental benefit in practice. > I wonder how many more CPU instructions are required per second of decoded video compared to HEVC. CPU…

MPEG-2 doesn't support video larger than 1920x1152, so it's hard to compare on 4k video, let alone 8k. But according to https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321412719_Subjectiv... H.265 can achieve similar visual quality with 10% of the bit rate of MPEG-2 even on SD video (832*480). [Edit: not 720p]