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Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#111

Post by tashoecraft »

wiz21c wrote: post #88
otherme123 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now imagine that the wealthy father of another average level kid is allowed to enter the race with an expensive kart that makes 10% more power, has 10% more grip and overall gives the driver a "free" 1.5 seconds per lap. Suddenly an average driver can crush a top notch driver every time. Because that's F1. There's not a balance driver/car. There are good cars, average cars and poor cars, almost all of them driven by…

>>> Now imagine that the wealthy father of another average level kid Indoor kart racing is, in my country, affordable to, say 50% of population (you may have to make some choices though). Count +/-120€ per month (2 training session + 1 race). Swimming lessons are 30€ per month I'd say. Outdoor karting is really expensive and is for the 1% (which I'm not part of :-)). Count 1000€ per race, gasp ! F1 is well, for ultra…

I have family that do outdoor karting, and they are learning just how expensive it gets. They are certainly not the 1%, and are actually considering switching their kid to spec miata as running a actual car is cheaper than karting. The kids they race against are sons (almost entirely sons) of ex f1 drivers, leading political figures of nations, and ultra wealthy. And this is all US based karting which has no segway into f1. It's truly a 1% sport, you either need to be ultra wealthy or very quickly get supported by someone with that level of wealth.

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#113

Post by LandR »

leokennis wrote: post #74
wiz21c wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno if it's a valid comparison, but my kid races indoor karting. He's average level, that means he's within 1.5% of the best in race conditions (i.e. on a 40 seconds lap, he's about than 0.7 seconds behind the best on average). And given the time it took to reach that, I'd say that being a competitive pilot may be just 10% of the victory, but those 10% are super tough to reach.

I have occasionally (and very recreationally) raced on track days. I do not know kart racing well, but even in a relatively slow (15 year old BMW) car, it's incredibly scary to race towards a brick wall at ~180 km/h and only brake at the last moment. So I think that 10% is a lot of skill and dedication, but also a sort of numbing to that fear.

I've done a lot of track days. You realise how big the skill gap is between an average person like me and a proper fast driver.

I've occasionally gone into a corner way faster than I should with my abilities, frightened myself, but the car has stuck to the track. It made the corner. I couldn't do this intentionally, even knowing that I can throw it into the corner x mph faster than I'm comfortable with and I will come out the other end pointing in the right direction, I still can't do it.

Then you realise that if I gave my car to a racing driver, he would drive it like that in every corner of every lap. Because he has to, because if he doesn't he's giving away time.

It blows my mind.

My limit for how fast I can drive a car is so much lower than even an average road cars physical limits.

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#114

Post by LandR »

11235813213455 wrote: post #51
beaker52 wrote: post #2

There are a couple of aspects of Formula 1 that make it very compelling to watch (my opinion of course, take as you will): - Accessible aerodynamics (it's on the road in front of you, not up in the air) - Technological developments (e.g. this year, one of the teams has a steering wheel they pull toward/push away themselves to change the geometry of the front wheels) - Watching high-performing athletes demonstrating t…

- The fact our planet has enough pollution to deal with already, I'm not saying Formula1 is extremely polluting, but whatever it adds is quite unnecessary for just an entertainment purpose (my opinion of course)

I believe Formula 1 has been carbon neutral for quite a while.

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#115

Post by dgritsko »

dom96 wrote: post #53
arooaroo wrote: post #29

People who are not normally interested in F1 are finding the Netflix series Drive to Survive a more accessible version to spectate. It's not just highlights in chronological order, but a distillation of the main themes of the season, e.g., certain inter-team battles, intra-team rivalries, fallouts between teams and suppliers, regulations, etc. The behind-the-scenes glimpses are fascinating. I remember (pre-family whe…

So I watched Drive to Survive and loved it, so much so that I would like to get into watching F1 proper, but when I tried it just doesn't hold my interest (although admittedly I mostly attempted to watch random races on YouTube). Do you (or anyone else) have any tips on what and where to watch to get into it? Perhaps it's time I get a proper subscription for the TV coverage and watch it like you say over the weekend.

Drive to Survive was my gateway drug as well. Since then, I've watched every race, and qualifying if I can help it (which can sometimes be even more exciting). I'd suggest watching current races - you'll know most of the people involved from watching DtS, which makes it much more compelling.

Also, I've found a few podcasts that I listen to during the week that help me stay up to date with the storylines of the season. In particular, Missed Apex[1] and Shift+F1[2] are my go-tos. The former is a little bit snarkier and opinion-based, the latter is more straightforward and factual - both are good. Check out their race previews/reviews, it will give you some things to pay attention to when watching a current race.

[1]: https://missedapexpodcast.com/

[2]: https://www.f1.cool/

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#116

Post by rezeroed »

eaurouge wrote: post #20
otherme123 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The balance is probably around 90% the car and 10% the driver. In the years of RB dominance, a subpar driver like Webber almost got the championship. OTOH Alonso lost a decade in Ferrari and McLaren while being, tied with Hamilton, the best driver in the grid. The 10% of what the driver adds to the mix is what makes Hamilton champion instead of Bottas.

The ratio varies - I would say it depends on the car, teammates and team. But ultimately driver skill is what determines who gets to drive for Mercedes, Ferrari etc. So once a pairing has been made, either the drivers are closely matched, or one or both will be changing teams or leaving F1 all together.

"ultimately driver skill is what determines who gets to drive for Mercedes" - not what happened with Bottas. Doubt that's what happened with Sainz.

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#117

Post by C1sc0cat »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #94
C1sc0cat wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I did a spec Job application to RBR racing I wasn't cheeky enough to mention the two DNF's (ran out of fuel) they had had the previous season, and how as a former Research Assistant / Experimental officer at a world leading hydro dynamics RnD org - I would have at least made sure the second one did not happen

Were I an interviewer, I think I would have actually really liked that one. It demonstrates real understanding of how human mistakes get made and prevented.

That was brought home to me, when I asked the guy that I shared an office why they used band new non rechargeable batteries for each run of a particular experiment - testing how to improve mixing for the chemical industry.

He commented that some of the runs cost 20k (about 10x my salary at the time) in chemicals to fill the tank (this was a full size 1:1 experiment) so using a brand new set every time made sense - and also the environmental cost of disposing of the several tons of chemicals was not trivial either.

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#118

Post by newsclues »

wastedhours wrote: post #105
newsclues wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F1 races are less common than other car races. The limited, exclusivity of the peak of sport is part of the appeal for fans and competitors alike.

Interesting though that compared with most individual series vs motorsport as a whole, F1 has more races (or at least, this season certainly would have done), and Liberty was rumoured to even be pushing for a 25 race calendar (nudging even closer to the BTCC calendar, and they do 3 per weekend...). If the double-headers do well this year, I can see that being how they manage that many next year.

2019 F1 21 races vs NASCAR 36.

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#119

Post by 11235813213455 »

LandR wrote: post #114
11235813213455 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- The fact our planet has enough pollution to deal with already, I'm not saying Formula1 is extremely polluting, but whatever it adds is quite unnecessary for just an entertainment purpose (my opinion of course)

I believe Formula 1 has been carbon neutral for quite a while.

By pollution I meant all the transports between races, all the services, products, material needed, all the people (spectators, staff, etc..) coming to races, their transports, food too, the transport and products for their food. It can go deep, those are all the hidden costs in terms of pollution, that people easily overlook

Re: Formula 1 2020: The secret aerodynamicist – are capes the key?

#120

Post by ezconnect »

dyyni wrote: post #21
otherme123 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The balance is probably around 90% the car and 10% the driver. In the years of RB dominance, a subpar driver like Webber almost got the championship. OTOH Alonso lost a decade in Ferrari and McLaren while being, tied with Hamilton, the best driver in the grid. The 10% of what the driver adds to the mix is what makes Hamilton champion instead of Bottas.

Also, a good driver might not be a good team member which might put them in a disadvantage. Räikkönen was considered one of if not the fastest on the grid during his best years but iirc wasn't very good as a team member in the car's development phase which hampered his and his car's performance

One of Räikkönens great skill is giving feedback to the engineer that's why he is still driving and good at developing cars.
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