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Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

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Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#111

Post by ben_w »

medee wrote: post #106
komali2 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

POC means people of color means non white. You taking the anthropologic perspective isn't scientifically incorrect - race doesn't actually exist, after all, in any meaningful way. However it is sociologically incorrect to call white people "colored."

Your statement is like claiming there is no scientific basis for family. Two people of the same race are more genetically related than half-siblings born to the same father and mothers of different races. The categories we call "race" are genetic clusters of populations who developed in different regions/environments. It's the level of taxonomy below species and above one's family. Overlap between these clusters does…

The exact point is that what is called “race” is a sociological sense isn’t based on meaningful generic clusters — saying someone’s (genetic cluster) race has a 1:1 mapping to skin colour is like saying their (genetic cluster) race has a 1:1 mapping to their hair colour.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#112

Post by jschwartzi »

cowmoo728 wrote: post #67
rootusrootus wrote: post #12

This seems like such a hard problem to really solve, since so much of what we consider racism, or at least borderline racism, has a significant basis in fundamental human thinking. I really feel for the guy, but it's hard to know where to start. I try really hard to ignore color, but I'm not immune to at least noticing . Then I try hard not to double-take. It's completely expected to meet Indians at the workplace, bu…

It's also unclear that private companies are capable of solving this. I'm not sure when we collectively decided that FAANG companies and private universities should take on a problem that was created by government policy. Government broke it, and government should fix it. Equitable funding for primary school STEM programs and subsidized childcare could be a good start. I get the sense that so many Americans have give…

It's a systemic problem, meaning that there isn't one specific cause. Government policy created the conditions, individuals perpetuate them, and the companies in question have the candidate pool that they have because of where they hire from and the expressed preferences of their individual workers. Because it is a systemic problem, there isn't a side of right and a side of wrong except for the few true malicious actors. And because it is a systemic problem we are all of us responsible for addressing it. We can't fob it off on the government or on private enterprise or on specific individuals. We must each individually make different choices if we want to change things.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#113

Post by kube-system »

foogazi wrote: post #86
Edmond wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where the author got his numbers from but if you read the full article, the author notes that the numbers/percentages themselves can be misleading, because that 3.1% could include the security guard who swipes your badge or some other peripheral role at a technology company. It is also true that Blacks do in fact quit the industry at high rates due to bias treatment; based on the number of computer science a…

> for instance you'll find much higher black representation in the public sector, specifically in the federal government Do you know why that is? Maybe government work is more inclusive, like the military

I'd guess it's due to more process, procedure, and regulatory structure.

It's very common for private companies to have little to no formal criteria for evaluating candidates. Intuition is more subject to bias than a formal process.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#114

Post by darkerside »

ibudiallo wrote: post #107

Hey everyone, author here. It seems like this post have been flagged, but I'd like to add a little comment here so it may clarify things. First, a little over a week ago we were having a similar discussion here [1] and I promised I'd post my article about it. This is the article. Second, I want people to understand that this is a complex issue and the solution might/should be as complex. It's not a case of, OK let's…

Thanks for speaking up. I don't know how to fix any of this, but I do know that we need to value each other's experiences, and that can't happen without us sharing them for what they are.

Hard as it is for you, and easy as it is to say for me, I do believe your uncomfortable experiences are changing things for the better. Every VC that hurries out of a room may not have invested in your company, but you just pushed a commit to their mental blockchain that will stick with them forever. Another promising young black entrepreneur is going to get his (or her) shot _because_ you didn't get yours.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#115

Post by dx87 »

metalgearsolid3 wrote: post #51
dx87 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are tribal about anything they identify with, whether it's their race, local sports team, country of birth, etc. It's not okay to be racist, but it's also not something you can legislate away. You may as well try to outlaw getting angry at people, it'll be just as effective.

This doesn't make any sense to me considering an uncontrolled outburst of anger is the exact kind of thing that gets people punished by law.

Anger isn't what's being punished, choosing to act on it is. I've met people who think that racism is an act that people choose, instead of a natural feeling that you shouldn't act on. Tribalism, whatever it's about, isn't going to go away any time soon, so I think trying to make people feel like they're part of the same tribe is a better solution than trying to legislate away millennia of human nature.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#116

Post by scarface74 »

o-__-o wrote: post #103

All of these comments and I’m left wondering if I’m the only black person commenting in this thread. I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color. I keep moving on but y’all it’s been 20 years of this. And it just started getting a little better in the past 3 years but is a total gamble based on where you work. In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved…

I’m Black. I’m 46 years old. I won’t discount your experience, but let me tell you mine.

I started programming in assembly in middle school in the mid 80s. I graduated from an unknown state school - an HBCU with a degree in CS in the mid 90s.

I muddled my way between two jobs until 2008 when I started taking my career seriously.

Over the last 12 years, I’ve had plenty of interviews and I am on my 6th job since 2008. I have had very few rejections. I think maybe three. I always use local recruiters so my resume has never disappeared down a black hole.

I have had the Dev lead position at $1 Billion revenue (non software) company, then a back end “cloud architect”, and now I work as a consultant at AWS. I have never once gone into a job interview with a doubt that I was qualified or that I would get the job.

I don’t hide my color on the Internet. In the appropriate threads, I always say that I am Black.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#117

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

komali2 wrote: post #71
octaveguin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that horribly patronizing? I'd feel offended if someone treated me with kid gloves based on my skin color.

Try asking some POC friends or colleagues! Get their perspective. Another user mentioned that it feels like kneeling on the ground and using "baby talk." That's not what's being said here. It's simply taking a moment to observe yourself and other colleagues potentially engaging in unconscious (or even conscious - you may have an avowed racist hiding it very well on the team!) bias. This is being an ally. It's not pat…

Every POC I know thinks that these kinds of efforts are often, although not always, patronizing. (In some cases even beyond patronizing; I've heard a few people say it's actively hurting their career, because they spend so much time being voluntold into diversity discussions that it cuts into their bandwidth for their real job.)

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#118

Post by [deleted] »

o-__-o wrote: post #103

All of these comments and I’m left wondering if I’m the only black person commenting in this thread. I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color. I keep moving on but y’all it’s been 20 years of this. And it just started getting a little better in the past 3 years but is a total gamble based on where you work. In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved…

[deleted]

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#119

Post by medee »

ben_w wrote: post #111
medee wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement is like claiming there is no scientific basis for family. Two people of the same race are more genetically related than half-siblings born to the same father and mothers of different races. The categories we call "race" are genetic clusters of populations who developed in different regions/environments. It's the level of taxonomy below species and above one's family. Overlap between these clusters does…

The exact point is that what is called “race” is a sociological sense isn’t based on meaningful generic clusters — saying someone’s (genetic cluster) race has a 1:1 mapping to skin colour is like saying their (genetic cluster) race has a 1:1 mapping to their hair colour.

Race isn't skin color, though [1].

Self-identified race maps to distinct genetic clusters with >99.8% accuracy [2].

1: https://i.imgur.com/0uyOA.jpg

2: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15625622

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#120

Post by numakerg »

ibudiallo wrote: post #107

Hey everyone, author here. It seems like this post have been flagged, but I'd like to add a little comment here so it may clarify things. First, a little over a week ago we were having a similar discussion here [1] and I promised I'd post my article about it. This is the article. Second, I want people to understand that this is a complex issue and the solution might/should be as complex. It's not a case of, OK let's…

Thank you for writing this. If there's at least one thing I hope everyone can agree is a positive, it's people sharing their perspectives like this.

> look around the office, you immediately notice that black people aren't there.

You're right, there aren't. One in ten people in my city is black, but I would estimate* fewer than one in forty developers at my work are. But there were just as few in my college classes, in my tech clubs, advanced mathematics classes, and any other place that would lead a person to software development. I think we need to address the problems with diversity in those place at the same time as we deal with the workplace problems.

* All the obvious caveats apply. I'm not going to project an identity onto someone else.

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