How Zoom works [slides] • Hacker News Board

Re: How Zoom works [slides]

#111

Post by mkl » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

KorfmannArno wrote: post #41

Again, what about Zoom's remote control feature (or annotate/whiteboard)? Is any competitor doing that?

Zoom's whiteboard is pretty bad. Slow, clunky, weird bugs on some OSes (pen draws in wrong place on Android IME), no pressure sensitivity. There are loads of shared whiteboard type services (search on HN; IIRC we've had a few discussions recently), but most of them don't support audio and video as well. I think Zoom for audio and video while using a separate shared whiteboard might work quite well, but I haven't had reason to try it yet.

Re: How Zoom works [slides]

#112

Post by zaroth » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 1:26 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #89

perryizgr8 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not how buttons work usually. Look at the reload button in Chrome. The icon shows you what will happen if you click it. The tooltip text also shows you what will happen if you click it. The text and icon are never opposite. At least I cannot think of another app that does this.

I happen to be standing in front of my coffee maker waiting for it to finish. It has a lit green LED (indicating it’s brewing) and a button under it labeled “Off”. Same conflict, but perfectly clear IMO.

This is an age old debacle with toggle switches. How do you indicate it is ON/OFF and how do you indicate pushing it will turn OFF/ON particularly when the states are binary but not as simple as ON/OFF and you’re working in two dimensions.

You’re trying to show status and allow toggling all at once. There are basically 4 ways to do it with a binary setting and no one right way.

- Icon shows current status, Text shows current status. My coffee maker does this with a button that goes from “Single” to “Double”.

- Icon shows current status, text shows what a click will achieve (Zoom)

- Icon shows what a click will do, text shows current status (Example?)

- Icon shows what a click will do, text shows what a click will do (Play/Pause buttons typically work like this)

As a result, as a user you have to spend the cognitive load analyzing the icon, maybe trying to guess what the current setting is, to try to intuit what a click will actually achieve.

Re: How Zoom works [slides]

#113

Post by mkl » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 1:28 PM UTC

jonathankoren wrote: post #34

coronadisaster wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 years ago is about when Microsoft purchased Skype... If I remember correctly they received money from the government to do it and then stopped using the P2P supernodes model and switched to their own servers to track users more easily... It used to work great, I wish the pre-MS source code would get leaked.

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/05/skype-replaces-...

Part of the reason for the switch was more and more users on mobile devices, so the proportion of users that could act as supernodes got much smaller. I think I remember one of the Skype developers describing this in a comment on HN, but I can't find it now.

Re: How Zoom works [slides]

#114

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 1:37 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #78

pmlnr wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is simply not true.

Then why do I see people from 2016 saying > "Skype For Linux does not support group video calling" [1] and articles from 2017 saying > "The latest update to the Skype Linux client makes it possible to place group video calls on Linux, [...] Electron-based app [...] This is the first update to the popular VoIP app since Microsoft retired the Qt-based Skype 4.3 [2] Plus I was personally there, trying to make group vide…

[deleted]

Re: How Zoom works [slides]

#115

Post by mitjak » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #66

lxgr wrote: post #21

Spot on. I really wonder if all those people claiming "Zoom just works, unlike x" have really believed that the first time joining a meeting, or if they're just used to its weird UX quirks.

The real innovation Zoom brought to the table (IMHO) was not requiring you to make an account to join a call. Inconsequential within a company where everyone already has a account - but critical if it's a one-off or rare call - such as a vendor talking to a customer, a hiring manager inviting someone to interview, or a doctor calling a patient.

this, and the easy install process. it almost feels like installing malware.

Re: How Zoom works [slides]

#116

Post by beyondcompute » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

robsws wrote: post #71

I was surprised they didn't mention that after clicking 'Leave Meeting', a popup comes up with a 'Leave Meeting' button in it, that actually leaves the meeting. This inevitably means in every single Zoom meeting that everyone says goodbye and then spends a few awkward seconds actually leaving the meeting.

That’s a very good point!

Re: How Zoom works [slides]

#117

Post by mitjak » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #89

perryizgr8 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not how buttons work usually. Look at the reload button in Chrome. The icon shows you what will happen if you click it. The tooltip text also shows you what will happen if you click it. The text and icon are never opposite. At least I cannot think of another app that does this.

I happen to be standing in front of my coffee maker waiting for it to finish. It has a lit green LED (indicating it’s brewing) and a button under it labeled “Off”. Same conflict, but perfectly clear IMO.

except an LED is either on or off, but a UI button is always "on"

Re: How Zoom works [slides]

#118

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 2:27 PM UTC

mitjak wrote: post #117

sokoloff wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I happen to be standing in front of my coffee maker waiting for it to finish. It has a lit green LED (indicating it’s brewing) and a button under it labeled “Off”. Same conflict, but perfectly clear IMO.

except an LED is either on or off, but a UI button is always "on"

That one happens to be, but if the LED went green/red rather than green/off, I think it would be just as clear.

Re: How Zoom works [slides]

#119

Post by jjice » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 2:36 PM UTC

robsws wrote: post #71

I was surprised they didn't mention that after clicking 'Leave Meeting', a popup comes up with a 'Leave Meeting' button in it, that actually leaves the meeting. This inevitably means in every single Zoom meeting that everyone says goodbye and then spends a few awkward seconds actually leaving the meeting.

GoTo Meeting does this too. I always get a laugh from watching my coworkers faces drop while they navigate to the actual end button.

Re: How Zoom works [slides]

#120

Post by conductr » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

robsws wrote: post #71

I was surprised they didn't mention that after clicking 'Leave Meeting', a popup comes up with a 'Leave Meeting' button in it, that actually leaves the meeting. This inevitably means in every single Zoom meeting that everyone says goodbye and then spends a few awkward seconds actually leaving the meeting.

Better than risk of accidentally dropping out of meetings abruptly. I see many people still manage to do this and it takes a couple minutes to get them back on. There’s also the real fun one when the host ends meeting for all on accident. It’s same IRL when every says bye then awkwardly gathers belongings and leaves a conf room in silence