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Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

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Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#111

Post by pedrocx486 »

Kaze404 wrote: post #103
haolez wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Brazilian, I am not pleased. This will become just another tool for the government to create artificial difficulties and sell solutions to its closest "friends". Standards have been created without any government's help since forever.

Can you name examples?

Brazilian here, he can't and for a good reason: The entire process for PIX, from initial engineering to final implementation is documented and made public.

The government is making this for the exact reason someone else mentioned: We're at the mercy for a handful of big players, and that's enough. One open standard for all is good. (Edit: It's also an "economy" controlling standard. Not aimed at end users. It's something for the Central Bank to keep notes on what's happening with the money going around.)

The documentation sadly is in portuguese and in PDF: https://www.bcb.gov.br/content/estabilidadefinanceira/forump...

You can find more by looking on Google for: Banco Central PIX PDF

Personal note: A lot of people sadly still believe everything the government makes equals bad or equals to something that was idealized/created by the current president in office. It's not the case here by any means (the Brazilian Central Bank runs "independently") but unfortunately a lot of people see it that way.

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#112

Post by haolez »

pedrocx486 wrote: post #111
Kaze404 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you name examples?

Brazilian here, he can't and for a good reason: The entire process for PIX, from initial engineering to final implementation is documented and made public. The government is making this for the exact reason someone else mentioned: We're at the mercy for a handful of big players, and that's enough. One open standard for all is good. (Edit: It's also an "economy" controlling standard. Not aimed at end users. It's somet…

Great! Just make PIX an alternative to the market, not something mandatory.

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#113

Post by topoftheforts »

sktrdie wrote: post #24

Why do services like whatsapp need support for this? We have URLs people! Here I just send an URL to my friend via whatsapp. They click on the link. The site takes care of giving user whichever payment method they desire. User pays. That's it. From a user's perspective to pay I just have to click a link. And to get paid I just send a link. How easier can it get?

Why do services like whatsapp need support for GIFs? We have URLs people!

Here I just send an URL to the GIF to my friend via whatsapp. They click on the link. They look at the GIF. That's it.

From a user's perspective to see a GIF I just have to click a link. And to send one I just send a link. How easier can it get?

---

I swear HN's community has the brightest minds yet so often it fails to understand simple user experience stuff (see the infamous Dropbox comment)

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#114

Post by tinus_hn »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #88
gcbw3 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative? leave facebook do exactly it instead of the government? You speak like the free-for-all tax tools didn't work for you. Do you rather the US model? where you have to pay $100~300 every year for exactly the same tools from a single private company that has a de facto monopoly because of close ties to the government? Also, in the US, a transfer from your checking account (where you get your paych…

The Canadian model of Interac e-Transfer works pretty nicely, and is (at worst) cheap or (increasingly) free depending on the exact bank accounts involved: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interac_e-Transfer it's pretty widely supported within Canada, both among banks and among real use cases like paying rent or moving companies as well as peer-to-peer reimbursements. Transfer time for Interac e-Transfer ranges from ins…

Similarly the Dutch iDEAL. I don’t really understand why this has to be country specific and the only international standard is US credit cards

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#115

Post by mixmastamyk »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #91
mixmastamyk wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be convenient use other ids besides bank account numbers, but it adds another avenue for mistakes.

Such as...? To me, passing around a long unstructured numeric string is a lot more error-prone than selecting a contact from my banking app, or writing a short, structured phone number or email address. In any case, the recipient needs to know the secret one-word answer to the question set by the sender, which would prevent wrong parties from claiming money (this can be skipped if the recipient registered their phone…

They are not unstructured and have checksum digits in proper implementations.

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#116

Post by mixmastamyk »

jryle70 wrote: post #104
mixmastamyk wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US banking system is archaic compared to elegant systems like they have in Australia/New Zealand (and probably Europe). No malicious rent-seeking third parties needed in the transaction.

Perhaps you should do a little bit more research. Zelle allows payment between banks (almost) instantly. No fee, since it's a service owned by participating banks, practically all major banks in the US. Zelle processed $187 billion in 2019. https://www.zellepay.com/get-started

Perhaps you should do a little research and find that the rest of the world has been doing that between all banks for a decade or two.

Not mention its ubiquity that allows everyone from teens to grandparents to pay .25 for a cookie, to dropping a down payment, to paying bills, to filing taxes, to automating a weekly rent check. Basically an elegant single system required for modern life.

The fact zelle, launched in 2017, has a brand name, and competes for mindshare illustrates how they missed the target. In other countries it’s called banking.

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#117

Post by Kaze404 »

haolez wrote: post #112
pedrocx486 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazilian here, he can't and for a good reason: The entire process for PIX, from initial engineering to final implementation is documented and made public. The government is making this for the exact reason someone else mentioned: We're at the mercy for a handful of big players, and that's enough. One open standard for all is good. (Edit: It's also an "economy" controlling standard. Not aimed at end users. It's somet…

Great! Just make PIX an alternative to the market, not something mandatory.

That's not possible for products that rely on social networks. Facebook has a monopoly in communication in Brazil, and if they had to compete with Pix they'd win regardless of the product. Pix, however, means anyone can integrate the functionality in their application, making every service compatible with each other and increasing competitiviness.

Re: Brazilian authorities suspend WhatsApp payments

#118

Post by webmobdev »

stickfigure wrote: post #109
webmobdev wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Pix is better, people will choose Pix, if WhatsApp is better, people will use it. Yes, let Facebook and Apple invent their own internet too, with no compatibility between them. Let's also allow Ford / GM to create their own roads exclusively for Ford / GM vehicles. /s This is not businesses we are talking about, it's public infrastructure. And banking is a public infrastructure.

Have a little faith? Compuserve, Prodigy, AOL, and a raft of others tried to make "their own internet" in the 80s/90s and the open system won out.

> Have a little faith?

No, thank you. I am from India, a country that lost its independence and was ruled and looted as a colony by a corporate called the East India Company. I have no faith in or trust in corporates.

In a healthy democracy, Government regulations and standards are a MUST to protect us from the greed of the corporates, and to create a level playing field.

Facebook is an american company and I applaud the wisdom of the Brazil policy makers to make it abide by their country's rules.

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