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For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

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Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#111
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's stereotyping, not racism. It can be both. "Women drive badly" is a sexist stereotype, but not racism. "Black people drive badly" would be both a stereotype and racism.

Well, it's still sexist. Same thing. Also, wrong. A better example would be, "women aren't passionate about driving". That's a stereotype, likely a correct one (i.e. substantiated by statistics... I mean, I'm not certain, but that would be my prior, but I'm very open to changing it), and most importantly: not harmful . It's just a stereotype. I'm not denying that things could be harmful (racism, sexist, ...). But not…

But surely it can be harmful? Perhaps women aren't encouraged to get into racing sports and get potentially lucrative careers out of it. Imagine the same sentence with computers - or programming! - replacing driving. Many a heated discussion has been had on these forums about a certain man and his memo.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#112

> the simple phrase ‘Black Lives Matter’ is seen as a political dog whistle, rather than a desperate cry to bring attention to a dire situation that many people choose not to see.” A little off-topic, but I notice a lot of the "All Lives Matter" people are mistaking the term "Black Lives Matter" as valuing black lives over others. I wonder if "Black Lives Matter Too" would convey its message better.

50% of the US has below 100 IQ. There is literally nothing you can do if some people can’t understand the meaning that “Black Lives Matter” doesn’t mean “Only Black Lives Matter”. I think it’s a small but loud percentage of the people believe this.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#113
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's still sexist. Same thing. Also, wrong. A better example would be, "women aren't passionate about driving". That's a stereotype, likely a correct one (i.e. substantiated by statistics... I mean, I'm not certain, but that would be my prior, but I'm very open to changing it), and most importantly: not harmful . It's just a stereotype. I'm not denying that things could be harmful (racism, sexist, ...). But not…

> That's a stereotype, likely a correct one [snip], and most importantly: not harmful. It's just a stereotype. Citation on those not being harmful? Stereotypes like that seem to be a driving factor in why STEM fields are very male dominated. "Girls don't like cars; go find some dolls to play with."

No normal parent has said anything even remotely like that in the last 30 years. Why is it so terrible to accept that men and women on average have different interests? Everyone knows that testosterone makes young men orders of magnitude more violent, why is it inconceivable that they could also be 4 times more interested in more mechanic play? It’s been observed even in almost newborn chimpanzees for Gods sake.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#114
post #53
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

s/hackernews/dangnews/

I understand the impression, but the truth is that no one knows how to make a forum that runs without moderation/curation while remaining interesting and surviving growth. I wish we did; it would be awesome. I could work on the code instead of writing tedious comments and getting accused of opposite things by angry people. If it makes you feel any better, I'm always looking for ways to relax control and intervene les…

dang, as the recipient of admonishments from you, I can only say: thank you. Your work ensures this site retains its high value.

That may read as a suck-up but it's genuine gratitude -- this is my go-to site and the value comes from the dialog here, far more than the articles themselves.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#115
The messages that need to be said right now are very difficult to say because people have steeled themselves. But they need to be said. This is not meant to be flamebait, I truly deeply believe these messages need to be heard and understood, so please understand that I'm speaking in good faith here. If you feel strongly that I am wrong, please reply with well thought out reasons why. I will listen.

Articles like this do the black community a disservice.

Society pretending that there is massive racism when there isn't is itself structural racism.

If you believe you cannot succeed due to all this racism, that will be sulf-fulfilling.

Blacks that believe in widespread racism will be less likely to go to university and get a job.

Blacks that believe cops are out to kill them will be more likely to resist arrest and get killed.

I'm not saying there isn't any racism. But I am saying that the level of racism is low, and the remaining racism is probably impossible to eliminate. The way to improve the lives of blacks is to stop focusing on and zooming in on racism, which makes it look a lot bigger of a problem than it really is.

Lived experience is not the way to determine why people do what they do. The hearer is not the expert on what the speaker means when he/she speaks. Like hanlon's razor, don't attribute to racism that which can be attributed to a simple embarrasing mistake. If you're holding a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

The recent protests due to police behavior is justified to call attention to a real problem, and police need to be less militarized and better trained. However, the belief that they are systematically hunting down black people for extermination is untrue and only harms the black community, because if you believe that, you are more likely to consider lawful persuits hopeless, more likely to engage in crime instead, and more likely to resist arrest which means you'll be much more likely to be killed by the police. It's self-fulfilling.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#116
post #56

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

I've read "White Fragility". While I completely agree that the stories in this article are hugely problematic and represent issues that need to be solved, I think books like "White Fragility" are not helpful in solving them. This is due to a focus on group identity, and describing "White" as if it's a monolithic group of people, all with the same culture, emotions, and reactions. Another interesting aspect I identifi…

I think the trend you're describing comes down to post-modernists' general rejection of objective truth, which the scientific method relies on. This excerpt from the Chomsky-Foucault debate sums it up well[0]. I like the idea as a progression of philosophy but it's been applied in some pretty terrible ways[1].

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQvL7YH0L_o

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#117
post #101

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

It is stereotyping but not neccesarily racism. I've made the same mistake at a car shop, I thought the small lady on my side of the counter was a customer, i ignored her and talked to the guy behind the counter, but turns out she was the boss+worker and the guy was helping out. I did feel embarrassed, but I know it's not because I think less of women, you just don't see women in those roles a lot. Maybe associative g…

Your example would be a case of sexism (sexual stereotyping), not racism (racial stereotyping). It may have been unintentional, but it was still sexism.

In this type of situation, the empathetic resolution would be to apologize for causing the victim's embarrassment, which most likely exceeds your own.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical about Robin Diangelo, I read her book a few months ago, and it only seems to be an advertisement for her services as an anti-racist instructor. Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything. There are much better books for foun…

> Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything. I admit I only just started reading her book, so can't comment on that, but I would say that's not the takeaway I got from any of the online videos or interviews I've seen of her, most definit…

The video you linked espouses the same ideas. To be anti-racist isn't to simply understand the things one can and cannot say. To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power.

It's akin to just memorizing a list of microagressions like curse words and never saying them for fear of being fired. Anti-racism provides the tools to contextualize and understand why certain phrases are racist or biased.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#119
post #89
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's something which is developing and being debated. The Root had a rundown earlier today: https://www.theroot.com/capitalizing-the-b-in-black-is-nice-... > At The Root, we’ve had a long-standing debate over capitalizing the “B” in black. Some of us are adamantly for it, while others (myself included) are grammar freaks who think that if we capitalize “black” we would also have to capitalize “white,” and I, personal…

That quote really sums up the ridiculousness of this imo.

The Root, from my experience over the years, tends to err on the side of being extremely racist. So take it with a grain of salt.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#120
post #99

I didn’t understand the first bit, why did they think people confused the black man with his white colleague, and how could that possibly be “racist”?

presumably because they looked from one to the other, and decided the colleague with the lest melanin was the CEO.
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