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Why are there so few black people in STEM?

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Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#111

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

Ghjklov wrote: post #107
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing. " As an Asian, I don't agree with that. Many Asians emigrated from Asia with very little possessions and started their lives in Western countries in conditions as bad or worse than the poorest native born, incl…

I think you are misreading something. I am arguing against the suggestion that Asians have unearned privilege which allowed them to become successful in America.

Ah, sorry. I did indeed misread your comment.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#112

Post by Ghjklov »

deogeo wrote: post #110
Ghjklov wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you are arguing these points at me. I didn't say anything about whites. Unarmed Asians being killed less by police and Asians being capable of racism doesn't mean Asian Americans are privileged lol. What are you trying to say bro? Just come out and say it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

> I didn't say anything about whites. When you say "odds are stacked against" someone, you have to compare to some other group to see what the "default" odds are. And privilege is not limited to the law. If a white person preferentially hires or promotes other whites, you'd claim those whites benefited from privilege. But you won't say the same for Asians, because of the Chinese Exclusion Act? Or because you just don…

>If a white person preferentially hires or promotes other whites, you'd claim those whites benefited from privilege. But you won't say the same for Asians,

Untrue, I have not claimed this anywhere or have implied such a thing.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#113

Post by hellisothers »

SiVal wrote: post #93
neffy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not really a lot of debate about what makes for good schools. Small class sizes, and well qualified(paid) teachers. It is that simple. You can try whatever alternative educational styles you want, and it will not work in a class size of 50. Nor does the federal government have to take over the education system to achieve this, it just has to guarantee equal funding for all students. Or the US can continue to…

There's not really a lot of debate about what makes for good schools There is plenty of debate about what makes for good schools. Many school districts are large enough to include neighborhoods on "both sides of the tracks". It is the same school district with the same pay, same class sizes, same teacher demographics, but different student body demographics. Result is often a large disparity in outcomes for students.…

This example feels anecdotal, small classes taught by well paid teachers seems like a hugely impactful improvement. Dismissing that because sometimes students don’t fit in with the environment feels like a straw man.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#114

Post by CincinnatiMan »

neffy wrote: post #10

For the same reason there are so few poor whites in STEM. America's dysfunctional education funding. Make education funding federal, and have a nationwide push to have small classes and well funded schools for everybody, and this would be fixed in 10 years. As it is, rich districts pay more taxes and get better schools. Funny that.

My understanding is that most good suburban schools actually spend less per pupil than the worse city schools. Do you happen to have numbers offhand?

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#115

Post by DuskStar »

neffy wrote: post #10

For the same reason there are so few poor whites in STEM. America's dysfunctional education funding. Make education funding federal, and have a nationwide push to have small classes and well funded schools for everybody, and this would be fixed in 10 years. As it is, rich districts pay more taxes and get better schools. Funny that.

What makes you think that "more funding" would improve outcomes?

As far as I'm aware, states that spend more per pupil don't significantly outperform those that spend less...

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#116

Post by deogeo »

Ghjklov wrote: post #112
deogeo wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't say anything about whites. When you say "odds are stacked against" someone, you have to compare to some other group to see what the "default" odds are. And privilege is not limited to the law. If a white person preferentially hires or promotes other whites, you'd claim those whites benefited from privilege. But you won't say the same for Asians, because of the Chinese Exclusion Act? Or because you just don…

>If a white person preferentially hires or promotes other whites, you'd claim those whites benefited from privilege. But you won't say the same for Asians, Untrue, I have not claimed this anywhere or have implied such a thing.

Claiming Asians in the US have never benefited from privilege implies exactly that, unless you tweak the definition of privilege depending on what group you're judging.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#117

Post by DuskStar »

hellisothers wrote: post #113
SiVal wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not really a lot of debate about what makes for good schools There is plenty of debate about what makes for good schools. Many school districts are large enough to include neighborhoods on "both sides of the tracks". It is the same school district with the same pay, same class sizes, same teacher demographics, but different student body demographics. Result is often a large disparity in outcomes for students.…

This example feels anecdotal, small classes taught by well paid teachers seems like a hugely impactful improvement. Dismissing that because sometimes students don’t fit in with the environment feels like a straw man.

And saying "if only you give the disadvantaged students this they'll perform the same as the rich kids" feels like wishful thinking to me.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#118

Post by _8j50 »

They sure love that 13% figure. Why are so many nigerians in america so well educated [1] ? Not doubting any other assertions but my theory is that historically, STEM has not been a well reputed path to success,recognition and respect for black americans both in their communities and nationally. Segregation is only half a century ago,but even these days being STEM educated and black is associated with negative stereotypes (although that is changing). Another factor: STEM just isn't well famed/influential enough in american society to where holding a STEM job would help the black community solve significant social problems.

I hope you forgive me for the candor,but, at the home parenting level even in early life, kids have to be raised to pursue such fields or at least see others like them do well and succeed so they can draw inspiration. In other words, an asian american(or nigerian!) person pursuing STEM would not feel like they're swimming upstream and against the flow while america born black americans and many rural european americans would feel that way.

I don't presume that's all there is to it, but plenty of immigrants with terrible education spending in their 3rd world countries get full ride scholarships in STEM in the US. I am certain, it's not something solvable by throwing money at lower education. uni's in america are a cash grab scheme, so you are asking people to get into a lifetime of debt right now. Instead of depending on foreign workers, the US government on it's part should conditionally subsidize higher education for americans with the condition being they pursue in demand acadameic goals.

[1] https://www.chron.com/news/article/Data-show-Nigerians-the-m...

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#119

Post by watertom »

neffy wrote: post #10

For the same reason there are so few poor whites in STEM. America's dysfunctional education funding. Make education funding federal, and have a nationwide push to have small classes and well funded schools for everybody, and this would be fixed in 10 years. As it is, rich districts pay more taxes and get better schools. Funny that.

Most poor families don't value education, so it's very hard to get children interested in school when their family actively discourages the involvement.

Drugs and crime have destroyed the family structure in all poor neighborhoods.

Frankly there is a strong anti-education bent moving through the entire Republican party, educated people hare harder to control.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#120

Post by orange8 »

CyanLite2 wrote: post #38
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #2

Why are there so few white people in pro basketball?

Maybe because there were 300 years of systemic natural selection in this country called "slavery" where black Americans were bought/sold and bred based solely on their physical attributes?

Where do black Africans fit in within this theory?
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