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I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

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Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#111

Post by rscho »

redis_mlc wrote: post #45
m4rtink wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I thin many forget when they speak against lockdown and for "heard immunity" - that this would not only result in a huge ammount of unnecessary deaths, but also pretty much wear out if not outright kill a signifficant part of medical personel. It's basically condemning them to working nonstop for months if not years, watching people die all day long & being in infection danger at all times while at work.…

> This is what I think many forget when they speak against lockdown and for "herd immunity" - that this would not only result in a huge ammount of unnecessary deaths, but also pretty much wear out if not outright kill a signifficant part of medical personel. Actually, no. You're parroting nonsense. The US cannot do testing and tracing because they waited too late, with 100,000 airline arrivals per week from China bef…

> watching a monitoring machine for a drugged, intubated patient isn't harder than anything else in an ICU

You have a very incomplete view of what it is to be an ICU nurse...

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#113

Post by thdrdt »

watwut wrote: post #98
thdrdt wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More and more researchers start to believe that the virus (also) spreads as aerosols. They also believe the amount of virus that enters your body affects how sick you get. This might also be the reason that healthy health workers can get sick when they are exposed a lot. So I have no doubt that working as health worker without enough protective gear is scary when you see healthy collegues getting sick. But that does…

> But that does not mean that going for herd immunity is a bad thing. One way or the other, end game is herd immunity. But when you let it just "go freely" you overshot - more people then is necessary for herd immunity will get sick.

Well the point is: it looks like we can go freely but only when we are not in closed spaces without good ventilation (and low humidity).

Studies [1] have shown that "20 percent of Covid-19 cases accounted for 80 percent of transmissions"

And those 20 percent were mostly 'Superspreading events'. We now know almost all those events were inside in bad ventilated areas.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/opinion/coronavirus-super...

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#114

Post by beachy »

afiori wrote: post #110
beachy wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seriously saying that a "short burst of mass deaths" is a better option than getting your shit together and doing proper social distancing followed by proper contact tracing? It's great that we've got rid of the virus for now in NZ, but yes, there are many questions, including whether there will still be an incentive to even try for a vaccine once major countries reach herd immunity (if and when that happens).…

> the US - the country that went to the moon, that invented the internet, that built a military capability that literally saved the world in ww2 two of those are in part result of propaganda

I've read a fair bit of military history, and I'm fairly confident the moon landings were not done using a green screen, so please elaborate on which 2 of these are not true.

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#115

Post by distant_hat »

40four wrote: post #63
m4rtink wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I thin many forget when they speak against lockdown and for "heard immunity" - that this would not only result in a huge ammount of unnecessary deaths, but also pretty much wear out if not outright kill a signifficant part of medical personel. It's basically condemning them to working nonstop for months if not years, watching people die all day long & being in infection danger at all times while at work.…

I think it is more complicated than that. Almost all states very early on had some level of 'lock-down', stay at home order, or what have you. This has limited movement of people, and as a side effect, or maybe even direct order from governors, closed down/ limited many business. Including hospitals. Hospitals in America, believe it nor not, are for profit businesses. It is un-intuitive, but many of them are in serio…

Lest someone think this is a US thing, this is true in India as well which has a fairly different medical system. Hospitals are struggling to stay afloat and many nurses and ancillary staff have been laid off. Doctors in India are typically independent contractors and not employed by hospitals.

Not only are no non-essential activities happening, many essential ones are also being pushed back and people are dying as a result. There are multiple stories of people not being able to go for dialysis because hospitals insist on a negative COViD test to admit you and authorities don't allow you to get tested if you are not showing COViD symptoms. It is a catch-22 that can be resolved only if you are well-connected or rich.

Also, in knock-on effects, immunization programs are severely impacted, and many infectious diseases are likely to make a huge comeback with the monsoon season since typical mitigating measures for those were put on hold. The non-COViD death toll will be massively above typical years.

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#116

Post by dannyw »

gvjddbnvdrbv wrote: post #67
40four wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is more complicated than that. Almost all states very early on had some level of 'lock-down', stay at home order, or what have you. This has limited movement of people, and as a side effect, or maybe even direct order from governors, closed down/ limited many business. Including hospitals. Hospitals in America, believe it nor not, are for profit businesses. It is un-intuitive, but many of them are in serio…

Everything you wrote is weird and simply shows that you need a proper health care system over there.

America isn’t going to transform their healthcare market in the next several months.

We can be ideological and let hospitals fail and doctors and nurses get laid off, or we can be pragmatic and focus on what creates the best outcome as we navigate the reality we are in.

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#117

Post by Intermernet »

kmonsen wrote: post #101
Intermernet wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if this seems rude, it's not meant to be, I'm genuinely curious. I understand (and support) opposition to contact tracing by badly designed technological solutions, but what is your argument against manual contact tracing? (actually asking people one-on-one who they've been in contact with if they test positive to Covid-19) I'm just after your reasoning. I promise I won't deride your decision in any way (and I…

A substantial part of the US population will not cooperate.

Yes, but why? It may be a valid reason, but I don't know what it is.

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#118

Post by dannyw »

gvjddbnvdrbv wrote: post #68
laichzeit0 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say the US gets to herd immunity and the rest of the world has done a really good job at containing the virus, e.g. New Zealand. What are they realistically going to do long term? Shut up their country until a vaccine arrives? Quarantine everyone coming in or going out for two weeks? Who is realistically going to want to travel into or out of there with those kind of restrictions. I seriously wonder if the short term…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-polio_syndrome Covid is a new disease. Will it have long term effects?

Coronavirus are not a new type of disease though.

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#119

Post by dannyw »

thedrbrian wrote: post #112

> I haven’t hugged my family in over two months — anything to keep them from contracting a virus that could kill them. It could but they look fairly young and as long as they’ve no comorbidities they’ll be fine.

It’s incredibly true. We know coronavirus is only really dangerous to the elderly and those with weakened immunity systems.

So why aren’t we focusing all the attention and effort on protecting the most vulnerable, instead of spreading misinformation like “COVID doesn’t discriminate” (it does) and panicking over schools while sending confirmed positive patients back to nursing homes?

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#120

Post by redis_mlc »

majormajor wrote: post #62
redis_mlc wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Cannot"? Why wouldn't it just require a much bigger effort? Corona is basically endemic in the US. You can test nursing homes and airport arrivals, and do followup testing on a small population. You cannot test 320 million people, and do followup weekly testing on them. Perhaps you're inspired by the success in NZ or Taiwan. The US has a totally different situation. You seem to think that "doing something" is bett…

This isn't "hope" that I'm expressing. This is me saying that *if we never try, we'll never succeed, at ANYTHING, not just at this. You're convinced hard equals impossible. Which is definitely part of why the US is so incompetent when it comes to this (or healthcare in general). People don't care that we suck. I just find that sad and horrifying. Let's say you take NYC, where the cases have been tailing off, and you…

> You're convinced hard equals impossible.

No I'm convinced it's pointless because herd immunity is inevitable and essentially free.

Testing somebody in the morning, then them going to the grocery store in the afternoon, is pointless.

Testing takes a significant amount of resources per test, which we don't have to do 300 million tests per week.

If you walk through the problem at this point, there is no solution for the US. Mother Nature won this time, and people like you are shouting into the wind.

Even if there was a vaccine tomorrow, there's enough anti-vaxxers that it won't be 100% applied. And it better be a free vaccine, because half the population is unemployed at this point and they're not paying $100 for non-essentials.

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