It seems like these new Macs might as well be phone with a keyboard in the way they treat their software and "pro" consumers.
Wake me up when they use less glue to hold their computers together...
Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month
111–120 of 174 posts
Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Docker runs on Arm chips.
Yes, but Docker on ARM won't run your x86 containers. Docker can run a different OS but not a different arch. The point of Docker is kind of having the exactly same thing here and there. With Docker, I can compile, run, test and debug my backend service on Windows or Mac and deploy to Linux, knowing that I ran and tested the exact same binary. If you deploy on x86 (as you do), having ARM Docker doesn't help you much.
Good point!
Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
An app that isn't updated in 12 months isn't necessarily "abandoned". It can also be complete.
Yes, but recompiling it for a new processor architecture shouldn't be a huge energy expenditure. For better or worse, applications meant to run on "moving target" operating systems like macOS need to be updated.
I think the first two steps of this process are to pay Apple $100 and try to build the software under a newer version of XCode. Based on my experience trying to build XLD under any version of XCode this seems like it will probably take a person-week or so.
Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
> On the other hand: this seems like a golden opportunity for Apple continue the path of merging iOS and Mac OS, turning the desktop platform into an equally walled garden. They can't turn macOS into a totally walled garden, without making it impossible to use as a development platform. If I can't compile and run my own software, or software I downloaded from others in source form, I can't use it as a development pla…
You can run your own code on an iPhone if you have a developer account. They could easily do the same for the Mac.
...for 7 days. Then you have to plug your iPhone back into your Mac and re-compile the software and reinstall it.
It’s an extremely shitty limitation that Apple put in place to give the appearance that they allow sideloading.
Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I imagine they'll have to provide some sort of x86/amd64 compat layer Just like they did with the mk86->ppc transition, just like they did with the ppc->x86 transition. > I hope they don't also continue to lock down macos Let's not confuse moving Macs to ARM processors with turning Macs into iOS devices. Apple has always treated the OS families differently and will continue to do so because they know more than anyb…
I wouldn't be so sure. Apple was happy to leave behind "pro" customers who needed floppy drives (1998), optical drives and ethernet (2013), and USB ports (2017). Sure, the industry ended up following them on a lot of this, but that should be as much a cause for concern as the rest of it. An awful lot of the pro audio / video work that happens on high end Apple hardware could absolutely happen on a machine where the o…
I don't know if those are the best examples. You can still plug a floppy drive or an ethernet adapter into a 2020 macbook pro's usb port.
I think what they did was they changed what it looks like to be a pro user. The average user gets a sleak experience while a "pro" user is going to have a docking station.
I actually like that they transitioned to the docking station approach. It means two things:
1. I have a lighter macbook pro for work travel 2. At my desk, one single cable: charges the computer; connects two additional monitors, ethernet, keyboard, mouse, sd card reader, high speed storage, and a scanner. I much prefer that one single cable vs the bundle of cables I used to have to plug/unplug each time I wanted to take or return my computer.
Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month
#116Interesting. I imagine they'll have to provide some sort of x86/amd64 compat layer as otherwise this kills every application available for macos right now. I hope they don't also continue to lock down macos (though I imagine they intend to) by restricting applications to only being available from the app store. That would set a terrible precedent for personal computing.
It kills every application whose developer doesn't issue an update in the next 12 months. If you buy an ARM based Mac and your favorite app doesn't work it was abandoned by the developer. As a developer there is a nuisance of one more damn thing to test, but compared to the nuisance iOS developers go through to make sure it looks nice on all the different sized devices, testing on an ARM before release isn't bad. Hav…
>> Apple has control top to bottom and has every incentive to make it easy for developers, if only for themselves.
Uuuh, but they have a track record of terrible developer support, so I don't see this actually happening.
Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month
#117I wonder what this will mean for Bootcamp. Stupid question time: Does MS make an ARM version of Windows 10?
Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you look at the problems with the 2016 - 2019 MBP, and also the problems with the first generation intel MBPs, the biggest issue in both cases was heat. (Although there were clearly other issues as well.) The new Apple chips are going to be much more power efficient, so I think there is actually hope here. I still wouldn't buy a v1 because I think they'll have problems, but I think whatever problems they'll have w…
> the biggest issue in both cases was heat. I don't think Apple was in any way naive about how hot Intel chips can run under load. It's also not impossible to make a laptop body that can run those chips with decent temperatures... if you're willing to make compromises on size. IMO, the biggest issue was they still chose to make the systems thin in spite of the thermal tradeoffs that would result from that. Yes, thinn…
> I don't think Apple was in any way naive about how hot Intel chips can run under load.
It seems like for the 2016 MBP, they either made significant last minute changes or moved up the release date by several months. When they released the computers the Apple stores didn't even have the right screwdrivers to open them for several months. That doesn't seem like something that was planned, but rather the result of some sort of timeline shift.
My guess is that they decided they needed them out the door before Christmas and so skipped the last six months of QA. Maybe it was something else, but I think it was more than just being unwilling to compromise on size.
Regardless, the 2020 models are basically flawless so far, so at least there's that.
Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month
#119What's been going on with the embedded ME/PSP in x86-compatible hardware for the last 10 years is ugly. If this is real--I'm hoping this evolves into a real alternative to that architecture though it's possible it could start doing the same thing.
Do you see any major differences between a T2-backed system and an ME/PSP one? How about TrustZone?
Re: Apple will announce move to ARM-based Macs later this month
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well they've already figured out multi-targeting in XCode and gave done this once before so I would imagine for a lot of developers it will just be a recompile. I saw a really cheap MacBook Air deal the other day and was tempted until I saw they're i3 based. Assuming App support, I could see them replace that with an ARM based CPU without anyone noticing.
They've done this 2 to 5 times before, depending on whether you count the 32-bit to 64-bit conversions and iOS. 68k->PPC, PPC->PPC64, PPC->x86, x86->x86-66, arm->arm64
what is x86-66?