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Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

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Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#111

Post by wikibob »

brogrammernot wrote: post #86
mech422 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, programmers in Oklahoma are not idiots either.. They know that not only does the company have a wider choice of employees - the employee has a wider choice of employers. They also know SV companies pay more then $90K, and if they already have a decent gig they will not 'settle' for what they could get at a small company. They may not ask for the full $150K - but they are going to ask for say $120-125k. End…

AZ salaries, when factoring in COL, are more than most tech jobs in California. This is leaving the allure of non-valued startup options but on average the salaries I’ve seen (yes, n=1) are in the realm of the upper curve of Bay Area salaries .

Do you have some reliable data you can share on AZ salaries?

Glassdoor is obviously not reliable.

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#112

Post by wikibob »

mech422 wrote: post #56
Jemaclus wrote: post #2

This is one of the things that's always bothered me. Let's say you hire me for your company in San Francisco and pay me $150K. You've made a calculation: my value to the company is greater than $150K, and $150K is a price you're willing to pay to leverage that value. In other words, the company will (eventually) make more than $150K per year off my contributions to the company. But now if I decide to move to Tulsa, O…

Of course, programmers in Oklahoma are not idiots either.. They know that not only does the company have a wider choice of employees - the employee has a wider choice of employers. They also know SV companies pay more then $90K, and if they already have a decent gig they will not 'settle' for what they could get at a small company. They may not ask for the full $150K - but they are going to ask for say $120-125k. End…

Are you in AZ? Can you share some first hand numbers on salaries by level there over the years?

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#113

Post by sirmoveon »

Jemaclus wrote: post #2

This is one of the things that's always bothered me. Let's say you hire me for your company in San Francisco and pay me $150K. You've made a calculation: my value to the company is greater than $150K, and $150K is a price you're willing to pay to leverage that value. In other words, the company will (eventually) make more than $150K per year off my contributions to the company. But now if I decide to move to Tulsa, O…

Your value to the company is relative to the job market you are competing in.

You might be worth 90k in the SF market, but in a global market, competing against cheap labor and other regional bureaucratic regulations, your value will be less.

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#114

Post by mech422 »

brogrammernot wrote: post #86
mech422 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, programmers in Oklahoma are not idiots either.. They know that not only does the company have a wider choice of employees - the employee has a wider choice of employers. They also know SV companies pay more then $90K, and if they already have a decent gig they will not 'settle' for what they could get at a small company. They may not ask for the full $150K - but they are going to ask for say $120-125k. End…

AZ salaries, when factoring in COL, are more than most tech jobs in California. This is leaving the allure of non-valued startup options but on average the salaries I’ve seen (yes, n=1) are in the realm of the upper curve of Bay Area salaries .

yeah - I honestly think phoenix metro is a great place to live. Salaries are good, CoL is still fairly low (though its gone up quite a bit in the last 10 years), and there seem to be more opportunities all the time.

TMSC dumping $12B into the phoenix economy over the next 9 years would only make things sweeter...

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#115

Post by iamcurious »

Cue to the horde of new startups that will be 100% remote and eat Zuckerberg's lunch. Remote will be the new open space, with all the buzz words, feel good stories and even the blind eye towards its obvious defects.

Seriously, everything is documented, you can grow without worrying about floor space, you get access to a larger pool of talent, you are probably imagining more.

Current managers may not like it, but hey it is okay to be old, leave it to the young to innovate.

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#116

Post by gwright »

whateveracct wrote: post #62
martythemaniak wrote: post #10

I've been mostly reading the WFH debates here on HN and this seems to have come as a shock to many advocates. You know, companies already had offices in different places you could already move out of SF to elsewhere and this was part of the deal. This isn't anything new, there was never the option of taking your Bay Area salary and living it up in Laos.

It was an option to live wherever in the United States though. Every place I've worked remotely based in SV/SF has paid accordingly despite me and the other engineers not living there. Startups & BigCos alike.

The more interesting question is not whether that was your experience but what the aggregate data might say about that.

It seems to me that companies that don't make that adjustment are spending a lot more on labor than they need to, but it may be that for certain types of businesses that it just doesn't make a difference in the overall financial picture.

There are very few businesses/industries that have a revenue/employee (or profit/employee) ratio like high-tech companies. And so fine-tuning employee compensation geographically may just be lost in the noise of their operations.

I doubt that practice is consistent across other business types though and it also suggests that employees at these businesses should be asking for even higher compensation!

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#118

Post by sh-run »

causehealth101 wrote: post #64
Jemaclus wrote: post #2

This is one of the things that's always bothered me. Let's say you hire me for your company in San Francisco and pay me $150K. You've made a calculation: my value to the company is greater than $150K, and $150K is a price you're willing to pay to leverage that value. In other words, the company will (eventually) make more than $150K per year off my contributions to the company. But now if I decide to move to Tulsa, O…

Let me preface by saying this policy is a serious threat to my compensation - so I hear you loud and clear! That said: this is the reality and, as unfair as it sounds from the employee's perspective, it makes perfect sense. Facebook does not pay Bay Area compensation to its employees in other parts of the world. It should be no different for those in different COL areas around the US. Not only does this suck for curr…

Exactly this. I work for a FAANG and live in Texas. If employees leaving the bay area could leave and maintain the same level of pay, I'd expect a bay area salary as well. With the lack of a state income tax and relatively low housing costs I'd be living like a king! According to NerdWallet's COL calculator I could pay off my house after a year with just my salary increase.

Edit: And if I moved to the bay area I would absolutely expect a COL increase

Re: Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts

#120

Post by TeMPOraL »

Tade0 wrote: post #90
aeternum wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part that doesn't make sense though is keeping the employees that live in SF, or paying an employee more if they choose to relocate to SF. Tech companies typically do increase your salary if you move to a higher CoL area.

Relocating for most people is actually a bigger deal than it may seem. I personally have no problem with it and did just that at least once, but after returning I asked around and most if not all of my friends and family would not do the same even for - and this was especially shocking to me - 4x the salary. Apparently flexibility is rare and sought after.

Was that 4x the salary truly 4x, after subtracting out the costs of living?

I got an offer for an on-site job in London the other day, that would technically be ~1.5x salary boost - and ~5x the salary I had the last time I worked for a local company. But after subtracting out the costs of living, it turned out it would be effectively a 3x salary decrease, and at the same time a significant degradation in the standards of living. Turns out, London isn't a particularly friendly place for a couple with a toddler to move to.

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