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Shopify Goes Digital by Default

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Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#111

Post by julianeon »

peruvian wrote: post #29
strig wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really couldn't disagree more. While I understand the desire to work with your coworkers in person, the benefits of working from home are huge for me. No commuting, which on its own is reason enough for WFH since it's such a massive waste of time. Commuting would add an extra 10 hours to my workweek, and I don't get paid for it. Add in things like control over your own workspace, no "open office" nonsense, access t…

Commuting is the big time saver, but you can also do chores you'd relegate to the weekend or after work while WFH. Not always of course, but chores like a quick grocery trip, laundry, cleaning, errands in your immediate neighborhood no longer crowd your weekend.

Lol, found the guy who doesn't have kids.

I don't want this to come across as overly harsh. But a helpful rule of thumb to understand what life is like after having kids, is: there is no free time. None! It's like being in the military, where you wake up at 6am, shower until 6:30am, do calisthenics until 9:30am... and so on, with every single hour occupied, until bedtime, promptly at 9:00pm.

If you tell a person like that 'just watch a movie during your free time,' they'll look at you blankly and say, 'I don't have free time, not on my schedule.'

Why are things so different? Because not only do you have another person(s) making messes who do like 0% of the cleanup, they require much more care than adults. So free time trends to 0%. There's no 'weekend' in the sense of no work (there's always housework), in a sense there's no 'after work.' There's only work, as far as the eye can see.

So for example, with commuting, I don't have enough time to do housecleaning, so the house stays in a permanent state of ugly messiness. Without it, I can apply that time to cleaning, so it becomes only moderately, to slightly, messy. There's no big block of free time - nowhere - where I can do stuff to bring back the time that's lost by commuting.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#112

Post by enobrev »

quaffapint wrote: post #40
tachyonbeam wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible. Lots of people don't like working remotely. They might lose a lot of valuable employees. I suppose over time they might also attract people who prefer working from home exclusively, but they would be losing many older employees with valuable knowledge. One way or another, there's going to be some kind of pushback. Many people threatening to quit, many actually quitting. The cynical part of me thinks th…

Will they? In my little view of the world I see younger workers who use the office for a social atmosphere as the ones who want to go back. Those of us that are older with older kids/wives seem more content at home. At least that's what I'm seeing in my current company.

Long before I ever even considered starting a family, I've always preferred working from home. I very much prefer keeping my social life and my work life separate. I'm close with a few people in my industry, but only the ones I really enjoy spending time with, personally.

I also have a great deal of respect for my teammates, some of whom I've worked with on multiple projects and companies over the past decade. But I'm especially glad not to complicate our relationships beyond our work together.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#113

Post by dawnerd »

achow wrote: post #95
MattGaiser wrote: post #62

I am curious about the sustainability of work from home for truly team-based work. I get to develop features independently, so if I am given the spec, I have no need to speak to anyone for the rest of the day except for a couple messages with QA. For me, it is great. But I am essentially a microservice with defined inputs and outputs. For the people who actually work in teams (rather than me who is part of a team but…

Yeah, after going through forced WFH for extended period of time, I think I see the point that Nadella is making on the impact that this may have on mental health. Work from home could be harmful for employees, warns Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/work-from-home-could...

But what about the mental health of people sitting in traffic hours a day, in a loud open floor plan office? Seems like a pretty terrible excuse to me.

Really big companies like Microsoft use their massive campuses as a recruiting tool - which obviously means nothing if you're remote-first.

But back to mental health: I've been doing MUCH better since I started WFH years ago. Going to an office every day was just too draining. Everyone would walk to hang out after hours, take extended lunches, etc.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#114

Post by cryptoz »

tachyonbeam wrote: post #105
cryptoz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you read that this is mandatory? It sounds optional to me from the opening sentence of the article.

https://twitter.com/tobi/status/1263483496087064579

I can't find anything about mandatory no-office-work in that tweet thread anywhere. I see that the offices are reopening in a few months, with reduced capacity and an expectation that most employees will want to work from home. I don't see anything stating that you will not be allowed back in the office. Maybe I misunderstand. I don't know.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#115

Post by fourmyle »

pb7 wrote: post #38
djohnston wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting point, I would guess they'd have no choice but to switch to condos or flats. But then if everyone is working anywhere why on earth would you live in SF. And why would companies hire in SF if they can pick up comparable talent at a fractional price from Romania. Lots of questions!

If the glaring problems with SF were fixed, this is still one of the best places in the world to live quality-of-life wise. Weather, accessibility to some of the best nature in the world, great food, entertainment, etc.

SF anywhere near Market or Mission is a 3rd world country. I just moved to Seattle. The QoL difference is striking.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#116

Post by randtrain34 »

newfeatureok wrote: post #90

Remote-first is the future. I'm not sure why anyone would be against it. No one is forcing you to work from home. From a compliance and operations perspective a remote-first company is effectively forced to do a lot of things many companies do not or will not undertake: - Make meetings accessible to everyone - Communicate more effectively and transparently internal to the organization (and even externally, for the ad…

I feel like this would also bring about an increase in coworking spaces

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#117

Post by benrbray »

newfeatureok wrote: post #90

Remote-first is the future. I'm not sure why anyone would be against it. No one is forcing you to work from home. From a compliance and operations perspective a remote-first company is effectively forced to do a lot of things many companies do not or will not undertake: - Make meetings accessible to everyone - Communicate more effectively and transparently internal to the organization (and even externally, for the ad…

(I posted this in another thread, but it's also relevant here)

As a new grad, I'm terrified of a transition where WFH is the default. I recognize that I still have a lot to learn, and that I can't do it all on my own. Casual interactions with coworkers and the ability to passively absorb new information in the workplace are essential for entry-level employees like me. Plus, personally, I find the social aspect of work to be crucial to my mental well-being. I feel a stronger sense of purpose when I can see that the people around me are all invested in the same project I'm working on.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#118

Post by alexbanks »

MattGaiser wrote: post #106
alexbanks wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The things you're describing don't go away with a remote team. It's not like going remote means all your employees just never talk to eachother in favor of working independently. It just means you use technology to solve in-person problems rather than being in person. I would argue it's no more miserable, in fact far less, than having to A.) Commute, B.) Sit in a conference room instead of my own home, C.) Let people…

> Let people walk over to my desk whenever they want and interrupt me. If you are the kind of person to think that way and spend most of your time working at your desk, your work is probably relatively independent. I am thinking about communications people who normally spend most of the day in a boardroom or developers who also have a hand in requirement analysis.

Can you describe why you couldn't spend a day in a boardroom _virtually_? Or how developers involved in "requirement analysis" need to be in the same room?

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#119

Post by fourmyle »

diogenescynic wrote: post #85

So Twitter, Square, Coinbase, and now Shopify. I wonder how many other companies will allow this and what this shift will lead to. I imagine this will lead to an exodus out of the Bay Area and possibly to places like Tahoe, Santa Cruz, Marin, and a corresponding shift in real estate prices. No real advantage to living in a tiny apartment in a city if you can't go to concerts, bars, restaurants, and now can WFH where…

Salaries will almost certainly be cut. If you can go 100% remote someone in the Midwest can do your job on $80k/year. All the places you listed are still expensive and if you are remote you don’t need to live there.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#120

Post by bb2018 »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #26

Anyone else think these companies will pull a Yahoo and undo this policy after the pandemic?

I don't know if they will, and don't even know if they know, but I think you are 100% right that they are leaving that on the table privately. There is really nothing to stop them from undoing the policy or altering so that particular teams (which end up being a large portion of the workforce) need to come in.

For now, it saves tremendous costs as it could be over a year before their typical engineer wants to come into an office.

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