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Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

reuters.com

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Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#111

Post by londons_explore »

cratermoon wrote: post #48
Spivak wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s only absurd when you assume that access implies blanket authorization. Apple Maps is allowed to use my location for the purpose of providing me directions . Sure privacy policies are usually overly broad but for sure “to allow Mark in accounting to track his ex’s” aren’t part of it. I don’t see a contradiction in two large players refusing to cooperate with governments that want to slurp up people’s location dat…

It's the reasoning they give -- that it might be compromised and used for bad ends. That's already possible, Anyone genuinely thinks that the partitioning of data for different purposes provides any real privacy protections, I've got a LifeLock subscription to sell them.

In terms of technical competence, I trust Google and Apple 10x more than I trust most governments.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#113

Post by OrgNet »

lazyeye wrote: post #12

Does anyone else find this a little ironic given Google is a company that has been logging peoples location to a very fine detail for years

It is very valuable information, why would they let you access it if they dont have to?

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#114

Post by ObsoleteNerd »

aaron695 wrote: post #92

Can anyone show me an app in the wild that uses Bluetooth like or close to what the Covid apps wants to? Why isn't HN talking about the technical side at all? We know Bluetooth on phones can't do what the governments says it can. We've all gone through the stage of, what if we used Bluetooth to track people indoors and do cool stuff! Then we realise you can't. The best we see is advertising maybe doing low quality be…

The Australian one seems to follow the spec pretty will. Uses rolling random IDs and BT RSSI to check for proximity to infected people. “Infected” is declared by the patients getting the hospital to input a private key when they’re diagnosed, which then uploads their last x days of random IDs to declare them as infected.

Source code is public and has been shared/audited on twitter etc but no formal audits that I’ve seen yet.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#115

Post by PaulKeeble »

tomatocracy wrote: post #81
kristianc wrote: post #19

Somewhat inevitable that the briefing will begin tomorrow against Apple and Google that American big tech firms are deliberately frustrating attempts to fight COVID and wouldn’t it be better if we just taxed them out of existence. Shame, as a UK citizen I’m entirely supportive of the stance Apple and Google are taking.

I'm not so sure that this type of framing will work so well in the UK. I suspect a lot of the press will jump straight to "it's because Dominic Cummings wants to benefit his mates who do dodgy data mining". Even if that's demonstrably totally untrue, enough people will believe that narrative for it to become mainstream. The fact that there are plenty of other countries who are content to go with the Google/Apple API…

I have no idea how to predict the UK public anymore. When it comes to the snoopers charter it went by with barely a whisper from the populace and yet when it comes to the 18+ filter on broadband something like 93% of people had opted out on their home broadband. It's exceptionally rare to find so many people do the opposite of default. I can't work out if the Uk public do or do not care about privacy and their security or what but they surprise me with their actions at times.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#116

Post by taywrobel »

bduerst wrote: post #93
SSLy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll use an analogy: they might not be the warlords, but they are the weapon traffickers.

I interned in St. Louis one summer and my neighbor worked at Boeing. The only reason I remember him to this day is because he introduced himself as a programmer working on smart bombs. He immediately said it was okay because he didn't fire the bombs, he just made them smarter so they didn't kill innocent people.

Is it a realistic expectation that we have no one working on smart bombs/weapons technology in general?

I’d love to be in the utopia world where there is no war and the entire planet gets along. But even the US has political bipolar disorder, so we’re a looooong way from global peace.

I do think we spend an absurd and inappropriate amount on defense, but as long as we are forced to develop weapons due to the global geopolitical climate, I’d consider it preferable to work on making them more targeted.

My problem is I don’t like or agree with the people picking the targets, but that’s a whole other argument.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#118

Post by catalogia »

nicwolff wrote: post #109
taywrobel wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could argue the exact same about literally any database used by the government. Their tools are just easier to use and more expressive. If you don’t like the bullshit the government does, that seems like an issue you should take up with the government, no? You’re using a tech company as a scapegoat.

> Their tools are just easier to use and more expressive. And that's the problem – they're giving governments tools that let them more easily and effectively infringe on the privacy rights of their citizens. Privacy isn't invaded when the data is collected, although that's a necessary step; it's invaded when a cop or bureaucrat queries that data to see what a citizen has done. Giving them that tool is morally complic…

https://youtu.be/5V7me25aNtI?t=16

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#119

Post by disappearance »

jjgreen wrote: post #11
AJRF wrote: post #3

I've been wondering about the UK contact tracing app because they seem to be deliberately misleading saying that data is secure on the phone, yet it's a centralised model, and they are using bullshit terms like "clinically secure algorithm" to describe the one-time codes; Is the source code of these apps something that could be FOI requested from NHSx seeing as it is publicly funded by the tax payer? Also they've alr…

Given that Palantir is involved, I'd not touch it with a long stick https://tech.newstatesman.com/coronavirus/palantir-covid19-d...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/uk-government-...

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#120

Post by PaulKeeble »

tobylane wrote: post #60
buboard wrote: post #47

covid19 has become a buzzword factory. Politicians popularize terms like "herd immunity" , "crush the curve", "testing", "ventilators", "PPE" etc to appear to be doing something. "Tracing" is the next in line, but it's a total sham. No country has been able to contain the epidemic with bluetooth. And all the countries that manage the epidemic have first waited until they have very few cases , which can be traced manu…

Bluetooth is only really an option for Apple, not any iOS developer. Slightly different for Google, where Android lets background apps use Bluetooth. So no country has tried to use bluetooth in their apps. Other than South Korea it sounded like contract tracing had been abandoned.

In South Korea, I suspect that the big difference is the specialist tracing teams they are using combined with the random testing of the public to find new potential sources really quickly. I am sure the app helps but it is probably not the route to normality. It requires thousands of contact tracing teams and high amounts of random testing on very low numbers to work, it is a small piece a combined set of policies that work together.
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