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Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

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Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#111

Post by smileysteve »

shawnps wrote: post #55

Online classes can work, but it makes sense that students are frustrated by courses put together quickly due to unforeseen circumstances. I've been a student of Georgia Tech's online Master's program for a few semesters now. They've had years to iterate based on previous students' feedback. I am learning an incredible amount for a decent price. But it is a Master's program and involves a lot of self-motivated researc…

Gt's master in CS prices are, I think, the biggest reason for a large refund for this online half semester.

Where in state tuition is $13k a year, out of state is $33 and a masters program is $10k total (or $1700 a year based on the same calculations)

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#112

Post by Olreich »

unishark wrote: post #71
red_admiral wrote: post #58

If I go into a restaurant and order pork, but get served beef, I have a right as a customer to complain. It doesn't matter whether beef is in some way better than pork, or whether other customers are perfectly happy with beef, or whether I eat beef myself at other times. I order pork, I expect pork. If the restaurant can't serve me pork, for example because they've run out, then the right answer is still not to just…

This analogy can still go either way. You ate half the meal. Then there they had to kick you out to finish at home with a doggy bag. You're losing out on some ambience, but the thing you showed up to achieve will be achieved. Note that there are already refunds for at least some of the in-person stuff such as dorms and gym access. So were already in a position of compromise and partial refund. It's just an argument o…

More like you ordered a three course meal, they brought out the appetizer, then kicked you out with a doggy bag of the main course, and told you they’d messenger you dessert later.

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#113

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

I read through quite a few replies and it seems like it’s all people whose disciplines didn’t need special equipment.

I did physics. Good luck using a scanning electron microscope, or getting access to an optics lab at home.

A lot of disciplines require specialised and expensive hardware, software or equipment. Industrial design, medicine, electrical engineering, chemical engineering. That’s the value add.

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#114

Post by rufusroflpunch »

madsbuch wrote: post #52

I guess this is a consequence of building an educational system that is for profit and where student pay a (substantiel) part of their tuition. European universities have also closed, yet I still have to hear about any complaints. In fact, it seems like the Corona crisis will boost university applications in Europe - If you can't have your gab year and find work you might as well just study. In the US it seems like w…

Maybe I am reading into it, but it seems like your comment implies this is a flaw in the US educational system versus the European system. I would argue this is an example of the opposite. By having the price hidden from them, the students have removed from them the most important signal to decide whether they are getting something of value.

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#115

Post by sfj »

intended wrote: post #85
gibolt wrote: post #4

As much as I wish it were better, most online courses offered by universities do not come close to the in-person experience. Their real goal/outcome is to increase access. Professors are trained (most at least) to teach in-person and have assignments and curriculums that match. They can't redo that appropriately to be equally effective within a week or two. Few could do it well given over a year doing online only. To…

Education has been disrupted. The disruption taught us that education is more than what we think of when we imagine the word studying. Khan Academy exists, and has existed for a while. The MOOC rush is over. We know the organic retention rates are abysmal. Online education was/is the holy grail of 2000 era layman ideas of education. Free, world class, available at your finger tips, at any time, educational content. Y…

Maybe VR will change things?

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#116

Post by [deleted] »

ImaCake wrote: post #39

I am doing a course on epidemiology this semester and I find it is once of the best courses I have ever taken, offline or online. It is offered, usually, in both online and in-person formats. It is very well designed and has rich content and opportunity for online interaction. I get the impression the in-person version is just as good as the online one. So why is this one so good when so many suck? Two possibilities:…

[deleted]

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#117

Post by sfj »

watwut wrote: post #105
swiley wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why was this downvoted? I failed a class and took the online version once so I got to see both sides. The online version had: 1) lots of busywork for the sake of busywork (to make up for attendance?) 2) much poorer instruction. Like everything felt like it was written by someone (really a group of people) who didn’t understand the subject very well, which was strange because the in person class was taught by a DR. wi…

It was downvoted, because many people here want in person classes to be useless waste of time. They don't want to hear they are better then online. That is mostly due to high price of price of us college. But imo, content issues are fixable, it just takes way more time. Good online courses with good content and good exercises will become more common. What will be harder is to simulate the social effects and mutual co…

I think that if just the classes were live, no/few exceptions, and the student to teacher ratio was kept low, that would be a big step.

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#118

Post by 11eleven »

intended wrote: post #85
gibolt wrote: post #4

As much as I wish it were better, most online courses offered by universities do not come close to the in-person experience. Their real goal/outcome is to increase access. Professors are trained (most at least) to teach in-person and have assignments and curriculums that match. They can't redo that appropriately to be equally effective within a week or two. Few could do it well given over a year doing online only. To…

Education has been disrupted. The disruption taught us that education is more than what we think of when we imagine the word studying. Khan Academy exists, and has existed for a while. The MOOC rush is over. We know the organic retention rates are abysmal. Online education was/is the holy grail of 2000 era layman ideas of education. Free, world class, available at your finger tips, at any time, educational content. Y…

> In contrast, most people who get in, finish college. > In person education beats online education hollow.

This isn't really true.

"According to the National Center for Education Statistics, just 41% of first-time full-time college students earn a bachelor’s degree in four years, and only 59% earn a bachelor’s in six years."

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/just-41percent-of-college-st...

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#120

Post by sfj »

isoprophlex wrote: post #77

This is what you get in a litigious society where the "free market" sets tuition prices. Of course students are pissed off at not getting the college experience anymore, given how expensive some of those schools are. What will be even more fun is watching the house of cards fall apart once the lockdowns extend into the new year and international students stay home. Now there's a cash drain no university can cope with…

> This is what you get in a litigious society where the "free market" sets tuition prices.

The high prices were an unintended(?) effect of guaranteed student loans. So, a warped kind of free.

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