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The Quiet Revolution of Animal Crossing

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Re: The Quiet Revolution of Animal Crossing

#111

Post by grenoire »

billfruit wrote: post #105

I do feel, the article and discussion isn't doing Stardew Valley justice. I do think SdV for example portray's an adult world compared to the infantilized creations of Nintendo. Also the complex interlocking systems, for example how big the mine areas are etc, is very deep and satisfying to figure out. Even the people of SdV aren't just plastic figures, they have a semblance to real people, as much as could be achiev…

I would go as far as to argue that Factorio is my Animal Crossing. For your average, casual player, Animal Crossing provides rote tasks that engages you with the game world without the added complexity. Factorio, SdV, and AC all ultimately provide 'relaxation.'

I love AC, but I have other itches that need scratches.

Re: The Quiet Revolution of Animal Crossing

#113

Post by cblum »

grenoire wrote: post #111
billfruit wrote: post #105

I do feel, the article and discussion isn't doing Stardew Valley justice. I do think SdV for example portray's an adult world compared to the infantilized creations of Nintendo. Also the complex interlocking systems, for example how big the mine areas are etc, is very deep and satisfying to figure out. Even the people of SdV aren't just plastic figures, they have a semblance to real people, as much as could be achiev…

I would go as far as to argue that Factorio is my Animal Crossing. For your average, casual player, Animal Crossing provides rote tasks that engages you with the game world without the added complexity. Factorio, SdV, and AC all ultimately provide 'relaxation.' I love AC, but I have other itches that need scratches.

Factorio made me super stressed out when I was playing it. One of the reasons I quit.

Re: The Quiet Revolution of Animal Crossing

#114

Post by slightwinder »

danbolt wrote: post #48

I've seen a lot of comments or responses from people saying that Animal Crossing's mechanics are unfulfilling or "pointless", but I think they're missing the spirit of what makes them enjoyable to a lot of people. I'm going to posit that a video game is the three following things, but you're welcome to disagree: 1) a player performs some sort of input into a game 2) the game responds with some sort of audiovisual phe…

> I'm going to posit that a video game is the three following things

In other words: Action from the player delivers result from the game, giving the player a sense of satisfaction.

And that's the point. There is a direct correlation between action and satisfaction. The more challenging and complex your action is, the higher can be the satisfaction when you finally get a good result.

And that's why people see Animal Crossing as kinda pointless, because everything is so simple, there is no complexity in action, thus no high satisfaction as direct response. Instead there is the very long game, where you do many many small actions over a rather long time to gain some rather small or middle sized result, while you have many many more mechanisms where the result is simple just random.

For people who are fixed on shortterm direct satisfaction, this is bad, because it's a slow longterm process with little outcome. It's basically like an extrem-sportler who needs to find the joy in just walking through the park.

Re: The Quiet Revolution of Animal Crossing

#115

Post by zimpenfish »

Smaug123 wrote: post #96
danbolt wrote: post #48

I've seen a lot of comments or responses from people saying that Animal Crossing's mechanics are unfulfilling or "pointless", but I think they're missing the spirit of what makes them enjoyable to a lot of people. I'm going to posit that a video game is the three following things, but you're welcome to disagree: 1) a player performs some sort of input into a game 2) the game responds with some sort of audiovisual phe…

Mark Rosewater, a designer of Magic: the Gathering, wrote a very interesting piece on what a "game" is: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/w... He says a useful model is that if the game has no goal, it's better termed a "toy" (like Lego); if it doesn't give you "agency", it's an "event" (like watching a film); if it doesn't have mechanics that restrict what's possible, it's an "activity" (lik…

AC has both external ("pay off your loan to expand your house", "expand the village population", "fill the museum") and internal ("I want a house full of XYZ furniture that coordinates with my outfits", "I want a garden of fruit trees", etc) goals.

You have agency - there's no penalty for not expanding your house or visiting other islands, etc.

The mechanics do restrict what's possible but then I can't think of a game (except perhaps Dwarf Fortress or real-life RPGs) where they don't.

And there's very little real-world relevance beyond, I suppose, "don't be a dick and life is easier for everyone."

Re: The Quiet Revolution of Animal Crossing

#116

Post by slightwinder »

billfruit wrote: post #101
wincy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My five year old daughter has a villager and decorates her house. I think the enhancements that would make the game easier for adults would make it harder for young children to grasp. She doesn’t accidentally buy 500 stacks of flowers then cry because her bells are gone.

In that respect I think Stardew Valley has included much more complex and compelling mechanics, as it seems designed foremost to appeal to adults. I thant is where it really shines over Animal Crossing.

Stardew Valley is also a different kind of game. It's a Farming Simulator, while Animal Crossing is usually called a Life Simulator. They both do kinda similar thing, but with very different focus.

In AC you collect stuff and arange/design stuff. And you also build stuff, for collecting and arranging stuff.

In SV you Farm, literally, and you plan how you farm the most efficiently way. You even have a energy-system and limited time, and have permanent pressure to do things now and not later. You can do build things, but AFAIK only for farming.

Both also have other mechanisms, often the same as in the respectively other game, but in some significant lesser complexity.

Re: The Quiet Revolution of Animal Crossing

#117

Post by TeMPOraL »

slightwinder wrote: post #114
danbolt wrote: post #48

I've seen a lot of comments or responses from people saying that Animal Crossing's mechanics are unfulfilling or "pointless", but I think they're missing the spirit of what makes them enjoyable to a lot of people. I'm going to posit that a video game is the three following things, but you're welcome to disagree: 1) a player performs some sort of input into a game 2) the game responds with some sort of audiovisual phe…

> I'm going to posit that a video game is the three following things In other words: Action from the player delivers result from the game, giving the player a sense of satisfaction. And that's the point. There is a direct correlation between action and satisfaction. The more challenging and complex your action is, the higher can be the satisfaction when you finally get a good result. And that's why people see Animal…

Haven't played AC yet, but it reminds me of Stardew Valley. Another game many would call pointless - besides the dungeon sidegame, you essentially run around the map, planting crops, picking crops, selling crops and gifting mayonnaise to people in exchange for story progression. There's little challenge here, and little complexity.

But at the same time, the game is extremely relaxing. The music, the ambiance, the story, all make you rest. And that's the goal of the game.

--

Anyway, I question the connection between complexity of action and satisfaction. Take rhythm games. Yes, many people play them for mastery, but a common (perhaps more common) way of playing is just to enjoy your rhythmic jumping/button pressing/hand waving to the beat with some fancy audiovisuals also synced to the rhythm. There's near zero complexity here. But what matters is the state of flow you achieve, it becomes an emotion pump.

Re: The Quiet Revolution of Animal Crossing

#118

Post by slightwinder »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #81
bschwindHN wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lest said about the online play the better. Heh, Nintendo is simply incapable or unwilling to produce a quality online experience. I don't know why. They created a masterpiece with Smash Ultimate but then did a huge disservice to themselves and the game by slapping on a really shitty online mode. Obviously it doesn't impact sales and that's likely what drives their decisions, but it's still so disappointing.

I wonder why they always put so little effort in. I know at least part of the reason is that nintendo wants to make an entirely child friendly experience which usually involves leaving as little player to player interaction as possible.

I think with nintendo is far more complicated. They rare quite conservative and very very strong focused on security in all kind of ways, meaning not harming their image, or their products, the game-experience or their profit. For those things there are always tradeoffs, so they choose the ones with the least impact.

On the other side, Nintendo is also a very old company, with a long history and sight on longterm-goals. But it seems to be also full of now older people with not so much experience in modern things. Addtionally, it's japan, which has a very bad history with stuff like Personal Computers and online-services. So people at nintendo are simply lacking experience and knowledge there even more than anywhere else.

This environment seems to be resulting in this very slow growing gain of understanding the world of online-gaming-features, as also mobile devices. It's step by step, with each step taking years, where others already had started a decade earlier.

Re: The Quiet Revolution of Animal Crossing

#119

Post by noobermin »

billfruit wrote: post #105

I do feel, the article and discussion isn't doing Stardew Valley justice. I do think SdV for example portray's an adult world compared to the infantilized creations of Nintendo. Also the complex interlocking systems, for example how big the mine areas are etc, is very deep and satisfying to figure out. Even the people of SdV aren't just plastic figures, they have a semblance to real people, as much as could be achiev…

There is value in it being cute and all, it's escapism. At the point where your escapism looks closer to your reality says a lot about how terrible your reality is, and perhaps becomes something of a replacement of that reality.

Re: The Quiet Revolution of Animal Crossing

#120

Post by slightwinder »

freeMoneySry wrote: post #35
minimaxir wrote: post #9

It's interesting how New Horizons adds many quality-of-life features to streamline gameplay...but still deliberately keeps some of the monotony present in the game design two decades ago on the GameCube. Adding a "weight" to repetitive actions has been a controversial game design principle. It implicitly makes good/efficient actions more rewarding, but there has to be a balance.

Instead of additional content, play time is added through annoyances? Just Nintendo Fanboy Things

Every game is an annoyance. The trick is to let the people enjoy the annoyance.
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