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If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

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Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#111

Post by jsz0 »

chrisbolt wrote: post #93
jsz0 wrote: post #84

We're in a transitional period. The vast majority of people who have iPads do have a PC of some kind also. For now it's the most practical way of doing backups, updates, and syncing large amounts of content. I do think Apple will move in the direction of not requiring a PC for these things but it's non-trival. How do you sync 16-64GB of data over 3G? Do you push 300MB+ updates to someone with a 150MB/month data cap?…

What iOS updates have required erasing/resyncing? I can't remember ever having to do that.

IIRC all the 3.x and 4.x releases until 4.3 have. I'm wondering if maybe that was due to having developer builds installed previously? I assumed it was standard practice but you're making me wonder if I'm wrong about this.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#112

Post by mckoss »

jsz0 wrote: post #84

We're in a transitional period. The vast majority of people who have iPads do have a PC of some kind also. For now it's the most practical way of doing backups, updates, and syncing large amounts of content. I do think Apple will move in the direction of not requiring a PC for these things but it's non-trival. How do you sync 16-64GB of data over 3G? Do you push 300MB+ updates to someone with a 150MB/month data cap?…

I'll have to disagree with most of what you say here.

I would attribute Apple's decision not to divorce the iPad from a PC to their desire to assert some presence onto the PC ecosystem. They don't want to be be JUST your tablet OS, they want to be on the desktop, by forcing installation of iTunes onto Windows machines as well.

This way, both products reenforce each other, and they can get increased market share on devices and onto Windows machines (with an activated credit card so you can purchase music directly on the PC).

Apple is ultra-competitive and they do not want to cede any niche of the market that they have managed to gain. Even though the experience of using iTunes, especially on Windows, is horrendous (for all of the reasons already stated in this thread). That's that only logical explanation for maintaining this extra complexity by a company that is otherwise brilliant at simplifying the user experience.

BTW, I do think Google has approached this with a much better vision - treating an Android device as a first-class network citizen. Google does sell content (app market as well as enable 3rd party music stores), most Android apps integrate some form of cloud storage for your data (which don't have to be managed by Google) - if you switch your device, you'll not likely loose anything important to you.

Updates also work very well over the WiFi network - no need to use your low-bandwidth data plan.

Overall, I don't see this as a technical hurdle for Apple - they just have a conflict of interest in locking up users vs. giving them the best user experience.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#113

Post by bane »

eitland wrote: post #105
SwellJoe wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iTunes is, perhaps, the least intuitive piece of software I've used in the past decade. I have, on three separate occasions now, deleted my entire music collection on the PC while trying to get music from the machine onto the iPod or iPhone. It's happened once on a Mac and twice on the Windows version of iTunes. I no longer even install iTunes, because I'm afraid of it. (I use an Android phone now, don't have an iPad…

You are not alone. I've been using Mac OS X for two years and can't belive why the company that came up with iPad and iPhone still - have global menus (who really wants that with todays screen resolutions and two monitors?) - needs the worlds best trackpads because their laptop keyboards have misplaced ctrl and their default keybindings are so inconsistent that users would be lost without a good pointing device. - fo…

You forgot

- can only resize a window from one corner, and that corner may be off the screen in certain cases so that you can't move the window to a position where the corner is even visible (this just bit me this week)

- still doesn't understand how to fullscreen programs (windows maximize function is the single best OS function I've seen that allows a user to focus on just ONE thing). I think this is fixed in the upcoming OS X but I don't have it.

- liters the screen, the doc, the global menu with all kinds of state icons to show running programs and background services, but doesn't have a built-in notification system so that the users have to install http://growl.info/

and more and more.

That said, it still manages to be a great OS. It was miles ahead of XP. About par with Vista.

But sadly, it's lagging behind Windows 7. And the new OS X versions just don't make me terribly excited. I'm ready for something new.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#114

Post by SwellJoe »

mistermann wrote: post #94
SwellJoe wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iTunes is, perhaps, the least intuitive piece of software I've used in the past decade. I have, on three separate occasions now, deleted my entire music collection on the PC while trying to get music from the machine onto the iPod or iPhone. It's happened once on a Mac and twice on the Windows version of iTunes. I no longer even install iTunes, because I'm afraid of it. (I use an Android phone now, don't have an iPad…

Same with me...I had to take my laptop in to an apple store so they could show me how to copy some mp3's to my iPhone.

Ah, there was my problem, then. I guess you have to be a genius to understand it.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#115

Post by mechanical_fish »

g0atbutt wrote: post #11
siglesias wrote: post #5

actually they'll unlock it in the store if you don't own a PC.

This is true, but I think a "post-pc" device should be able to stand on it's own two legs. Thanks for pointing this out, I meant to include it in my article.

I think a "post-pc" device should be able to stand on it's own two legs.

Why?

I ask seriously. Your interpretation of the phrase post-PC as "you don't need to see a PC ever again" is just one interpretation, and perhaps not the one that Steve Jobs meant. [1] It's a deliberately ambiguous term, like most statements about trends and fashion.

He's talking about the PC era. Just because an era ends doesn't mean that all its legacy goes away. Indeed, it can mean quite the opposite. The mainframe era is over, and yet there may be more mainframes in existence now than ever. The era of recorded music sales is, arguably, in decline, yet that doesn't mean that we don't have recorded music anymore. In that particular case, it means that recorded music has become so cheap and ubiquitous that it's like air, so it's devalued and its profit margins have dwindled. Kind of like PCs.

I've always felt that the iOS ecosystem was post-PC not because it is trying to replace the PC, but because its design is predicated on the assumption that everyone who actually wants a PC has one by now. So of course iOS doesn't have to support, say, emacs: If you want to run emacs you do so on your PC. If by some miracle you want a PC but don't have one already, there's probably a disused one sitting at a nearby garage sale marked "$25" that would do in a pinch. And, more controversially, of course iOS has a closed and curated ecosystem: If you want an open ecosystem, pick up a PC for a few bucks. They're all over the place. I had to throw away two of them last year.

---

[1] I mean, not this year. Apple still makes PCs. Surely they won't declare the PC dead until they stop making them.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#116

Post by ericmsimons »

Well, I know it's definitely possible to have it be completely independent. Palm did a fantastic job of having the Pre be completely separate. I have never connected it to my computer and everything is done OTA...updates, app downloads, etc. Apple is just dealing with the original way that iOS was developed. It will take a bit for them to swap everything to OTA :(

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#117

Post by codex »

I've always assumed that Apple required wired sync because otherwise syncing would drain the battery unacceptably. USB syncing doesn't use a radio transmitter, but more importantly, USB supplies some power to offset the drain from sync. When battery life improves I expect this requirement to go away.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#119

Post by grinich »

bane wrote: post #113
eitland wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not alone. I've been using Mac OS X for two years and can't belive why the company that came up with iPad and iPhone still - have global menus (who really wants that with todays screen resolutions and two monitors?) - needs the worlds best trackpads because their laptop keyboards have misplaced ctrl and their default keybindings are so inconsistent that users would be lost without a good pointing device. - fo…

You forgot - can only resize a window from one corner, and that corner may be off the screen in certain cases so that you can't move the window to a position where the corner is even visible (this just bit me this week) - still doesn't understand how to fullscreen programs (windows maximize function is the single best OS function I've seen that allows a user to focus on just ONE thing). I think this is fixed in the u…

your first two points are mostly solved in Lion.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#120

Post by jonknee »

jsz0 wrote: post #84

We're in a transitional period. The vast majority of people who have iPads do have a PC of some kind also. For now it's the most practical way of doing backups, updates, and syncing large amounts of content. I do think Apple will move in the direction of not requiring a PC for these things but it's non-trival. How do you sync 16-64GB of data over 3G? Do you push 300MB+ updates to someone with a 150MB/month data cap?…

I think Google has it figured out with how they do updates for Chrome. On the mobile side they don't have the luxury of everyone running the same software (carrier/manufacturer customizations) like Apple does, which really gums up the works. Apple should be able to significantly improve the update experience.

As far as syncing goes, I think a good first step would be to do it all over WiFi on the local network in the background (TimeMachine style). I have my iPad/iPhone running on the same local wireless network as my laptop all day/night, it's nuts that I have to physically connect the two. The step up from there is to sync to the cloud, but still over WiFi.

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