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The pervert's guide to computer programming languages (2017) [video]

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Re: The pervert's guide to computer programming languages (2017) [video]

#111
post #90
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where's Rust and Swift?

I'd put Rust in the obsessional camp and Swift in the hysterical. I'd put Haskell in both camps.

The way the community talks about doing things the "swifty" way is very reminiscent of the way the python community talks about the "pythonic" way of doing things, I've used both languages extensively so maybe I fall into the hysterical camp. Swift falls a little into the obsessive category too.

Re: The pervert's guide to computer programming languages (2017) [video]

#112
post #26
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has primarily worked with Perl, JavaScript, SQL during their career, and who has a penchant for regular expressions, I'm a sadistic psychopath. Super. I mean I've been told I'm pretty unemotional, but sadism would definitely be a new development.

> sadism would definitely be a new development I guess that might depend upon your regexps and how gnarly/undocumented they are :-)

Was it not perl that introduced the documentation feature to regexp (the extended "x" flag)?

Re: The pervert's guide to computer programming languages (2017) [video]

#113

Critical theory is a communicable memetic mental disorder.

Yeah, but so is nearly everything else. Money, sexuality and gender, architectural designs, military tradition, the list goes on without end. Nearly our entire society is a communicable memecomplex, and additionally, nearly every meme is logically incoherent, or at least logically unfounded. By the very implied claim that you make that mental disorders exist, you also imply that there is such a thing as ordered menta…

I assert there are comparatively more ordered mental states, comparatively more correct patterns of thought, and comparatively healthier logical reasoning. None of that is black and white, and no one is perfect, but some do more harm, and some do more good. To claim otherwise is to abandon reason and hope when confronted with suffering. You have not done so; if not, why type at the internet?

Re: The pervert's guide to computer programming languages (2017) [video]

#114
post #95

Here's the extended paper version of the talk, with all those great mind map diagrams (which were made with Loomio, [I think, but not sure]): https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/vulk-blog/ThePervertsGuid... Loomio: https://www.loomio.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loomio >Loomio is decision-making software designed to assist groups with the collaborative decision-making process. It is a free software[3] web applic…

The mind maps were both hand drawn and made using simplemind. Loomio is a voting tool :)

cheers for the most original analysis of a domain (PL) using a farflung framework (psychoanalysis) i've seen in a long time. really good job! have you tried to publish in a journal?

incidentally you might enjoy this paper

https://web.ics.purdue.edu/~plotnits/PDFs/ap%20lacan%20and%2...

Re: The pervert's guide to computer programming languages (2017) [video]

#116
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sadism would definitely be a new development I guess that might depend upon your regexps and how gnarly/undocumented they are :-)

Was it not perl that introduced the documentation feature to regexp (the extended "x" flag)?

I think Perl got it in 99 or 2000. The only other two possibilities are Ruby or PCRE. But I think they were following Perl rather than leading at that time.

----

Raku's reinvention of regexes threw away the x flag. Instead comments are always supported. And whitespace is insignificant.

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Except when one explicitly asks for it to implicitly be significant. Imo this simple maneuver is shockingly sweet, the sort of thing I'm glad Larry Wall saw, with his usual piercing clarity, is brain-dead obviously precisely the right thing to do:

    rule declaration {   '='  }
The above declares a `rule` which is like a regex except it doesn't backtrack between atoms, and, if there's whitespace between atoms, it treats that as a tokenizing boundary. So, for example, whitespace can appear in the input where it appears in the pattern, and tokens corresponding to the atoms (`declarator`, ``, etc.) can't run into each other unless one is comprised of alphanumerics and the other non-alphanumerics. This is precisely how humans expect things to work; `let foo` must have a space between `let` and `foo`, but `let foo=42` is OK because `=` is a non-alphanumeric. Simple. Sweet.

Re: The pervert's guide to computer programming languages (2017) [video]

#117
post #57
post #54

Where would BASIC fall in this categories?

With or without compiler pragmas?

I used to use %VAL and %REF in DEC BASIC to do memory management. Most def sadistic. It was simple. It was dangerous. And it failed in the most inscrutable ways, particularly if you were a "normal" BASIC programmer.

Re: The pervert's guide to computer programming languages (2017) [video]

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but so is nearly everything else. Money, sexuality and gender, architectural designs, military tradition, the list goes on without end. Nearly our entire society is a communicable memecomplex, and additionally, nearly every meme is logically incoherent, or at least logically unfounded. By the very implied claim that you make that mental disorders exist, you also imply that there is such a thing as ordered menta…

Our bridges stand. Our rockets fly, and our planes (tend) to not drop out of the air unexpectedly. If not for some healthy logical reasoning, correct patterns of thought, and ordered mental states, then what? Yes, it's fun to discuss this kind of thing, and a lot of what we do is irrational, but it's just as often sophistry as anything else. I note, of course, that you did only say 'nearly', but that's basically exac…

Mathematics and physics are memecomplices which allow us to study and consider the Platonic realm. There's no one single mathematics from a cultural perspective; consider where numerals, operators, and grouping come from. The notation is how we make sense of the abstract, non-physical aspects with our mere physical brains.

The "nearly" that I am exempting is for those things which are logically deduced from other things alone. While a person might reason incorrectly based on faulty premises, they are nonetheless using reason to do so, and applying it in a logical fashion (cf "formally formal" logic proofs). The right lesson to take away, I think, is that being logical, being consistent with empirical observations, and being uncontradicted by dialectic evidence, are three distinct things, and none of them are the truth, if the truth even exists.

Re: The pervert's guide to computer programming languages (2017) [video]

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but so is nearly everything else. Money, sexuality and gender, architectural designs, military tradition, the list goes on without end. Nearly our entire society is a communicable memecomplex, and additionally, nearly every meme is logically incoherent, or at least logically unfounded. By the very implied claim that you make that mental disorders exist, you also imply that there is such a thing as ordered menta…

I assert there are comparatively more ordered mental states, comparatively more correct patterns of thought, and comparatively healthier logical reasoning. None of that is black and white, and no one is perfect, but some do more harm, and some do more good. To claim otherwise is to abandon reason and hope when confronted with suffering. You have not done so; if not, why type at the internet?

I will take your first branch: Mental states are not observable, certainly not in a way which gives rise to some measure which we can call "orderedness". Study psychopathy and you'll see extremely "ordered" behaviors from people who are "suffering" from "mental disorders". At some point, the analogy becomes incoherent; human behaviors are too rich.

You may be interested in Aumann's Agreement: If two reasoners disagree, then either their reasoning differs, or their prior observations differ. It seems to me that typically it is the priors that differ. So why stigmatize folks for differing reasoning? Perhaps there is no good reason.

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