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Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

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Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#111

Post by reaperducer »

samatman wrote: post #110
reaperducer wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple seems to have figured out a compromise. There is an icon for turning off data to a radio (wifi or Bluetooth, for example), and an entirely different icon for if the radio is completely off. If you have an iPhone, you can see this by turning off wifi and also your cellular connection. The wifi icon will change from color to black-on-white, while the cellular icon will change from color to white-on-black. This in…

That's better than nothing, but my response to your post was to try it on my phone and then mutter to myself "okay, I guess" I don't think most iPhone users browse HN to glean hints about the meaning of such opaque affordances, I had no idea that was what was happening when I turned off WiFi. I just figured it was actually off.

I managed to figure it out. Maybe because I noticed the colors were different. I suspect other people have figured it out, too, since my ex-girlfriend describes me as, "the single most stupid person I've ever met."

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#112

Post by jschwartzi »

izacus wrote: post #65
jschwartzi wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the LG phones I've used Google Maps is insanely slow when Location History is disabled. Same on the Samsung S7 my fiance uses.

Do you also have the Google service disabled? Because that will then fallback to pure GPS lock which needs of order of minutes to get a lock in cities and closed spaces. Since LH doesn't retrieve GPS data in background, the GPS location isn't warmed up and you need to wait for it.

No, I mean the search bar and some features of the app are slow.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#113

Post by notRobot »

> A third option on Android called “Device only” location allows a user to utilize only GPS to determine location, rather than “High accuracy,” which uses GPS, wifi, Bluetooth, and cellular signals. But even when a phone is in Device-only mode, beacon information is sent to Google when Bluetooth is off (though not when scanning is also disabled). If Location is turned off entirely, and then re-enabled, the phone resets to the High accuracy mode, making the setting hard to rely on.

This was removed in Android P, unfortunately.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#114

Post by floatingatoll »

reaperducer wrote: post #107
floatingatoll wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would say so in the same breath as expecting their Apple Watch and Apple Pencil to continue working on their iPhone and iPad respectively, and objecting when they break. Telling them they shouldn't expect Bluetooth devices to continue working when they turn off Bluetooth will make them confused and eventually angry with you; "these devices don't require pairing, or pin codes, or manual connection crap, or any of…

Telling them they shouldn't expect Bluetooth devices to continue working when they turn off Bluetooth will make them confused and eventually angry with you Yep. Many greybeards around here have fought the battle of "Why do I need a modem to access AOL? I got a disk in the mail, that should be good enough!"

Too bad their takeaway seems to have been “people are stupid” rather than “people had a point”. If AOL couldn’t make a useful program that worked in offline mode, with a content cache loaded on-disc and updated with content regularly, they were totally missing out on the “mail magazines to houses annually” strategy of using those discs for more than just trash waste. But people don’t understand modems and it was easier to mock them than to build a better product.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#115

Post by vel0city »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #96
vel0city wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on Android 8.1. When turning off Bluetooth the entire Bluetooth menu showing previously paired devices changes to just show the string "When Bluetooth is turned on, your device can communicate with other nearby Bluetooth devices. To improve location accuracy, system apps and services can still detect Bluetooth devices. You can change this setting in _scanning settings_[link to the associated settings page]". I do…

Maybe the "when this is turned off" bit not actually turning it off? That's not exactly up front. It could easily have not been called "turned off", like "OS use only" mode or "bluetooth not function except as a spy tool for Google" mode, something snappy ... I suppose you have no problem with people calling things purchase when they mean short-term rental, either. Do you really think it's called "off" when it's not…

Don't falsely quote, it's a disservice. The settings page never says "when this is turned off". It says what's happening in incredibly plain language and provides a link to the other settings which could confuse a user really attempting to fully disable the whole Bluetooth stack including OS level access. As others have stated, wanting to disable the ability of pairing is sometimes wanted while still allowing something like high precision location through Bluetooth scanning or other forms of 2.4GHz radio sampling. It's not entirely unreasonable for such a feature to exist, so to me it's not an unreasonable settings structure. Had they hidden the setting which could be conflicting with the user's request to disable all Bluetooth I would understand your point, but it's pretty clear what's happening when looking at the settings page.

Misquoting and falsely assuming things of others does a great disservice to your argument.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#116

Post by hanche »

izacus wrote: post #35
_trampeltier wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say, I did not know that, you have to go to an extra menu. I really hate all todays OS, how they fool all user. On the other side, Apps like Wiggle.net do not work since Android 9 because they limited WiFi scanning.

I just setup a Pixel and it asked about this during the initial setup.

It's easy to miss stuff on initial setup. Here you got a shiny new device, you're eager to get it up and running so you can start enjoying your purchase. It's extremely easy in that setting to miss the small print. Even if it ain't that small.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#117

Post by tomcatfish »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #38
izacus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was never true. It was annoyingly aggresive, had some annoying UI limitations (e.g. it wouldn't remember past trips) but it was never fully unable to function.

You couldn't even save locations (such as a "home" or "work" location) without allowing google to track your location history.

I have a screenshot that actually shows the locations you have saved before are still saved, it just does not let you access them, which proves this was just to annoy users.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#118

Post by 4926394057 »

newscracker wrote: post #10

Is this similar to Apple’s “off but not really off” modes for Bluetooth and WiFi where the toggle in Control Center keeps them active for certain purposes on iOS (and making it “really off” requires going to Settings)? Or is it different from that? I couldn’t really distinguish even after reading this article fully. The way to turn it off, described in the article, did seem very messy, and as with Android, the steps…

I’m so fed up of going to settings for exactly this reason, can you explain how you created these widgets please?

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#119

Post by tomcatfish »

izacus wrote: post #108
kibwen wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall it being true on my 2014-era phones (can't recall if it was a Moto G or a Pixel). I wrestled with turning Location Services on and off every time I wanted to navigate until I eventually gave up and left it on permanently. Opening the app with Location Services off would produce an (as far as I knew) undissmissable prompt demanding that Location Services be turned back on. Perhaps there was some way to work a…

Don't mix Location Services and Location History (confusing but similarly named things - Google at it's best :P). Location Services provide... location. Without it, Maps obviously won't work. Location History sends your location to Google servers and you should probably turn it off.

The thing the posters likely are noting is that maps (lowercase 'm', just a regular map) work totally fine without knowing where you are, and Google Maps should too.
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