So it looks like labels are like “multi-folders”, and unlike gmail, there is no mix of labels and folders. It’s either or.
Gmail does not have a mix of labels and folders. It's all labels in Gmail.
Fastmail Labels Beta
111–120 of 121 posts
Re: Fastmail Labels Beta
#112So it looks like labels are like “multi-folders”, and unlike gmail, there is no mix of labels and folders. It’s either or.
Folders can be implemented by having a set of labels of which only one can be assigned to any given message. Then use folder names/paths as these labels and, voila, you got folders. So perhaps it's something that is coming...
Except everything will get duplicated in Archive ;-)
Re: Fastmail Labels Beta
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suspect Fastmail can't afford to offer cheaper plans. I bet their common customer is a small business and offering cheap family plans would put a huge dent in their revenues. Also, I suspect it would attract people that need tech support. I'd bet a really nice dinner their cfo has modeled the numbers.
So as to prevent abuse from small businesses, why not request proofs that you are indeed a family, or something of the sort? (there some privacy-related edges in doing that though, and a time expense in verifying those docs...) Or, the other way around, add it explicitly in t&c that small businesses abusing family plans are violating t&c's? Also, a family plan doesn't have to be 4x cheaper, even a 2x discount might d…
Before the current prices, they had family plans and the rationale for removing them was that they are struggling to be profitable.
So your hutch goes counter to their direct declaration at the time (I'm a long time customer, don't have references ready, but I can look if you want).
"Positive karma and visibility on HN/Reddit" is laughable. Don't get me wrong, but I see a lot of self-entitlement on these threads, with people supposedly blocking ads for privacy reasons and due to not having a way to give money, yet when something like YouTube Premium happens, they still don't subscribe, because fuck them, too expensive. Brings the "eating your cake and having it too" ideal to a whole new level.
As a matter of fact the cheap or free users generate over 80% of the support tickets, always. And if it's free or too cheap, it means you're the product.
What gets actual positive karma is staying in business and not milking user data in order to serve ads. If you want your data to be milked, Gmail is still free.
Re: Fastmail Labels Beta
#114If you have a spouse and/or kids, and you want them to use FastMail for the same reason you do, consider putting pressure on FastMail to offer a (reasonable) family plan. I’ve been a happy customer for a decade but they’ve raised their prices (which would affect new accounts) and do not offer a family plan so this year be my last year with them. Edit: typo
I’m in the same boat. I would happily migrate my wife, kid, parents, and possibly even my siblings over if it was more affordable to do so. They don’t see the value in not being in the Google ecosystem, so they aren’t willing to pay themselves, which is understandable. I would be happy to pay for them, but at $50/year per user that adds up too fast unfortunately.
What pricing plan would work for your family?
Re: Fastmail Labels Beta
#115So it looks like labels are like “multi-folders”, and unlike gmail, there is no mix of labels and folders. It’s either or.
Gmail does not have a mix of labels and folders. It's all labels in Gmail.
GMail has a feature to emulate hierachies from labels, basically folders. Maybe that's what he meant.
Re: Fastmail Labels Beta
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
So as to prevent abuse from small businesses, why not request proofs that you are indeed a family, or something of the sort? (there some privacy-related edges in doing that though, and a time expense in verifying those docs...) Or, the other way around, add it explicitly in t&c that small businesses abusing family plans are violating t&c's? Also, a family plan doesn't have to be 4x cheaper, even a 2x discount might d…
Before the current prices, they had family plans and the rationale for removing them was that they are struggling to be profitable. So your hutch goes counter to their direct declaration at the time (I'm a long time customer, don't have references ready, but I can look if you want). "Positive karma and visibility on HN/Reddit" is laughable. Don't get me wrong, but I see a lot of self-entitlement on these threads, wit…
Thanks, these are all good points (and I did a bit of research/googling on the family plans that they had, too).
In a very simple example though: I'm currently considering getting a FM account, but I would only get it for the whole family, e.g. of 4. As of right now, I probably won't because 4 x $50/y is a tad too much.
So, in the one extreme, FM has to support +0 extra customers and gets $0. I'm not happy, they lose a customer, noone wins.
If I subscribe alone, FM has to support +1 customer and gets $50. Since it's their current plan, they are happy with it. FM wins.
Another unrealistic extreme, the whole family is free, FM has to support +4 customers and still gets $50. Obviously they aren't happy with it.
However, if the family gets a discount K, so that a family of four pay (K * $200), where K I wouldn't categorize these users as "cheap" (why?) since it's not a whole lot cheaper than buying the normal plan X times. As long as there's a non-zero discount, it would be viewed differently by the users (as opposed to the current "fuck off, we don't care" approach).
Re: Fastmail Labels Beta
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Before the current prices, they had family plans and the rationale for removing them was that they are struggling to be profitable. So your hutch goes counter to their direct declaration at the time (I'm a long time customer, don't have references ready, but I can look if you want). "Positive karma and visibility on HN/Reddit" is laughable. Don't get me wrong, but I see a lot of self-entitlement on these threads, wit…
Thanks, these are all good points (and I did a bit of research/googling on the family plans that they had, too). In a very simple example though: I'm currently considering getting a FM account, but I would only get it for the whole family, e.g. of 4. As of right now, I probably won't because 4 x $50/y is a tad too much. So, in the one extreme, FM has to support +0 extra customers and gets $0. I'm not happy, they lose…
Your analysis again skips the cheap family plans (1) cannibalizing the full-price SMB plans; and (2) the families that are already on the normal plans that immediately demand a discount. And implicitly assert Fastmail's cfo hasn't modeled these scenarios and is just leaving money on the table because they don't like money.
Re: Fastmail Labels Beta
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m in the same boat. I would happily migrate my wife, kid, parents, and possibly even my siblings over if it was more affordable to do so. They don’t see the value in not being in the Google ecosystem, so they aren’t willing to pay themselves, which is understandable. I would be happy to pay for them, but at $50/year per user that adds up too fast unfortunately.
What pricing plan would work for your family?
I’m not sure to be honest. At least, I’m it sure what would work for me, but that wouldn’t sabotage their business sales. It might be nice to have a family plan that’s “up to 10” users. It could be used by small companies but anything over 10 would have to migrate to a business plan. I wouldn’t mind it starting at $10/m for 3 accounts and then maybe $2/m for each additional up to 10? That would cap at $24/m for 10 personal email accounts, about 50% off their current pricing.
Re: Fastmail Labels Beta
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a big reason why I list cheaper alternatives to Fastmail whenever the topic of emails comes here. If your needs are more than one mailbox (not aliases), then Fastmail soon becomes prohibitively expensive. A few years ago, when asked about cheaper pricing plans, Fastmail replied that it has no plans (no pun intended) to go cheaper or offer cheaper plans. There are other alternatives that are cheaper and focus…
Basecamp is launching their email service soon — Hey.com — as well.
I takes years to develop an interface, apps. etc. FM has been doing this for two decades plus
Re: Fastmail Labels Beta
#120So it looks like labels are like “multi-folders”, and unlike gmail, there is no mix of labels and folders. It’s either or.
Gmail does not have a mix of labels and folders. It's all labels in Gmail.
You're right. The "move message" icon is, however, of a folder[1], so I guess over time I came to the misunderstanding that I was working with folders!
[1] https://it.stonybrook.edu/sites/default/files/kb/8618/images...
